BellaOnline Forums Travel and Culture Polish Culture All ........

Although I have a religion, it is not Roman Catholic and, of course, I am only an Englishman (!), so I am confused. According to the Roman Catholic Church where I have encountered it before Poland, November 1 was All Saints Day when the Saints were remembered etc. November 2 was All Souls Day when the departed were remembered and blessed at the gravesides. From what I see, on November 1, although called in Poland All Saints Day, it is the dead who are remembered in the cemetery, with no mention of Saints. Am I mistaken?
I may have been misled by a young woman three or four years ago when I was speaking at a Conference in Warszawa. She was telling me of the party they had on the evening of October 31 (Hallowe'en)and at midnight they all went to the cemetery to remember the dead (that is in the early hours of November 1)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where am I going wrong?
Leslie <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wall.gif" alt="" />

Your Catholic data is all right Leslie2 (hello again btw)
October 31st has recently became Haloween Day
November 1st is All Saints Day
November 2nd is All Souls Day (All Dead Day)

Now! Due to cultural character of catholic religion in Poland and comunist regime cruelties inflicted on the nation many Poles call All Saints Day wrongly All Souls Day.
All Saints Day is very often called All Souls Day (Day of the Dead) The Catholi Church has put some effort to clear this confusion but unsuccesfully so far.
Confusion in my opinion arises because only November 1st is a national holiday type of holiday (no work!) and so many Poles call it Day of the Dead, some call it rightly All Saints Day, some think it is the real Heloween Day (very young ones) for some it is believe it or not Day of the Ghosts (sic!)
So nobody but realy true Catholics those paying attention at what their prist says know what is what.
October 2nd is to be Day of the Dead Souls and Catholics are supposed to attend a mass at church (truth is not many do - they go to work instead)
So as you see it is all messed up but recently somehow clering up, too.
Hope It did clear things for ya. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

*

And you're right that on All Saints Day most remember the dead ones. Attendence on cementaries on October 2nd goes down by about 50 % but probably all remember the dead ones on that day. How many actually remeber the Saints on November 1st is hard to say. I predict that when JP2 is a Saint we will get it right.

Forza
Good to be in touch with you again too. Many thanks for the clarification from someone in Poland au courant - obviously there will always some differences of views - we are all only human (aren't we??!). The main thing is that we remember our ancestors, particularly the most recent and closest ones. Do not worry too much about this subject approach - I shall be attacking something/somebody soon! Speaking of that Raytan seems to have disappeared.
Pozdrawiam
Leslie

The thing is that according to Catholic Church we shouldn't remeber the saints or pray for them as they are already in heaven and from there should help us get there (sort of lobbying to God). We are supposed to pray for the souls in the purgatory and this is done on 2nd November. It all is very complicated, at least to me.

Hey guys......lily here!

Zooba - you wrote:

"The thing is that according to Catholic Church we shouldn't remeber the saints or pray for them as they are already in heaven and from there should help us get there (sort of lobbying to God). We are supposed to pray for the souls in the purgatory and this is done on 2nd November. It all is very complicated, at least to me."

Perhaps a few words here might clarify -

There are really two types of Saints.
One type is the Pope John Paul - or Mother Teresa type who are unusally spiritual individuals who have performed a very definite spiritual walk in this life.

The other type are like all of us everyday people - who are not as outstanding (at least in the world's eyes!) as Pope John Paul - but are never the less good people who have tried their best and lived a good life. They are in heaven and considered Saints as well - but not by the church community as a whole - because these people are everyday - and probably never done deeds like the first group. Never the less - they are with Our Lord and are Saints too!

My mom was a very very spritual person - and I know in my heart that she is with Our Lord - therefore a Saint of the second group I mentioned above - but certainly with Our Lord and I think about her daily - and pray THROUGH HER just as if Nancy on this web site were to ask me to pray for John - who is doing "not so good" with his health. I would say to Nancy - sure Nancy, I'll remember John in prayer and personal intentions.........well it's like that with my mom - Mom please keep our family in your prayers and personal intentions - ...........so, I AM PRAYING THROUGH MY MOM - JUST AS I AM PRAYING FOR JOHN - THE SAINTS CAN PRAY FOR ME TOO. In fact, everyone on this web site can pray for each other - the Blessed Mother can pray for us - Saints, Angels, even the Souls in Purgatory can pray for us, BUT WE DO NOT PRAY TO THEM - WE PRAY ONLY TO GOD OUR FATHER. We pray through everyone else...............
Hey Nancy - Keep Me In Your Prayers
Hey Pope John Paul = Keep Me In Your Prayers
Hey Leslie - Keep Me etc
and on and on it goes..........

Some people would say - why even ask someone to pray for you for some reason........we could after all, go directly to God and by pass all these above people - dead or alive.

Well it's a lot like having babies ........ it's very very shallow to think that only a man and woman make a baby. With millions of couples trying to have children and not able, it's very clear that God is who makes the tree - the baby - the Universe - etc,. and we work in concert with God - GOD NEEDS US TO CARRY OUT HIS WORK - WE ARE HIS HANDS - and so it is with Prayer and personal intentions - God really wants to hear from us - our every desire, problems, joy, happiness, etc., ........ he's not some "guy in the sky" who is too busy.........God wants to hear from us - and if my mom is asking God on my behalf - .....God is listening.

Zooba also mentioned praying for the Souls in Purgatory - don't forget here - THEY CAN PRAY FOR US AS WELL - THIS IS A TWO WAY STREET...........here again - the same principal applies.

I personally believe, I will see my mom and family someday - and probably have some sort of relationship with my husband in the after life .......... and I think it's important to remember our loved ones and family - who we are and what we come from - and most of all - THAT GOD LISTENS TO ALL PRAYER - WHETHER COMING DIRECTLY FROM US - OR FROM THOSE WHO WISH TO PRAY FOR US ON OUR BEHALF.

I want to make it clear - I'm not theolgian - by any means - but this is my Roman Catholic understanding of All Saints - All Souls - Days.

When I attended Holy Mass (obligatory!) on All Saints Day - I thought a lot about the dead - my family members and friends, associates, past students etc., knowing that many of these people are Saints in Heaven - with Our Lord...perhaps only "everday folks" - but certainly Saints never the less.

God Bless

lily

Lily, Thank you a lot for your explanation. I am a bit of a lost soul now, a seed that has fallen on the ground and the weeds have overgrown it. I'm not a fertile soil, I'm afraid. But that's a whole different story.

Lily
An excellent explanation that I understood and had accepted it previously as the normal scheme of things. But I was commenting/questioning what these differences were in Poland - and there certainly are differences between the Poland religion and that of Western Europe and the US, for example, as far as All Saints and All Souls days and to whom they turn. But it doesn't really matter (at least in my religion) - I would much rather pray and hope to be blessed by my relatives, many of whom (now deceased) I probably knew when they were alive. I have never met a Saint!!
Leslie - not a <img src="/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

Leslie..........lily here........

You never know Leslie - read the life of St. Augustine and blow your mind - how someone like that can become a saint.

Zooba.....you mentioned that you are a lost soul...

Jesus Christ went to Calvary for lost souls - so your in good company with the rest of us!!

Pick yourself up - start all over again!

lily