BellaOnline Forums Travel and Culture Polish Culture Question about American culture

I have a question about American culture.
Is it easy for non-English speaking people
to addapt to the American Anglo-saxon culture?
I ask this question, because I know that the USA
were dominated from the early period of the founding
fathers until the 20th century by the Prebysterian
and other Protestant, Anglo-saxons.
Was it easy for Catholic Poles (your Polish parents,
grandparents, ancestors or you) to integrate in the
new society?
I read earlier about the resentments against the floods
of jewish and Eastern European immigrants in the
end of the 19th centrury and in the beginning of the 20th century,
and the strict immigration laws (restrictions like the immigration
stop in the early twenties due to the anti-immigrant mood under
the American population of that time).
Now I know (via this forum -you- and my Polish-American family)
that you have succesful Polish-Americans and huge communities
in Chicago, Detroit and New York.
The new generation of young Poles speak English, but in the past
older Poles spoke German or even French, not English (exept
the very few intellectuals, students and academics).
I there an Polish-American accent or dialect, like the Italians
and French have and the Latino's?
America has a strong national identity, but in the same time many
of it's citizens are very proud of their roods, and have strong ethnic
cultural communities and organisations.
It is an exiting, innovative and interesting society and culture.
I never felt more European then when I was in America.

Pieter

I think there probably must be but on a personal level. This always happend I think no matter where you go in the world. People do not like "different". When I was small I lived in mainly an Italian city but close by was a Polsih community. Our neighbors were mostly Italian. I think if there were problems it wasn't really the nationality but the difference of a persons individual personality. We all really got along and enjoyed each other. I think what you are referring to is back maybe in the 20's when nationalities didn't tolerate each other well. Much has changed since then. I don't really believe this is true today although their maybe still some predjudice and I don't believe that will ever go away in anyones lifetime..persent or future.

Chris,

Thanks for your reply, I think that you are right in what you are saying.
Maybe I asked this question, because I was curious about the similarties and differances between America and Europe.
It seems to me that America has been more succesful in integrating and assimilating newcommers (Immigrants) into their society than Europeans do. America is differant form Europe, because it is the country of the dream of succes and (a) New Life for many people in the world, Europe is only attractive for it's wealth (not because of a dream behind it). The Latino "problem" in the USA is differant from the "Muslim" problem in Europe. I hear that people in America are irritated about affirmative action in the past and the Spanish language spoken by many people in your country. In Europe that irritation exsists about Arab/Berber (North-African) and Turkish. European neighbourhoods in big cities became Middle-eastern, and the original European populations did'nt like that very much. In America ethnic neigbourhoods are accepted and there is a sort of autonomy of ethnic cultural communities.
In Europe that is not seen as positive, because the 19th centry sytem of the National state has generated a strong centralism, and a sense of national unity which is gathered around customs, habits, traditions, the language (Polish, French, German, Duch, Danish and etc.).
After the political correct days of affirmative action and fear of stigmatizing minorities, European countries experiance that ethnic minorities (foreigners) have not integrated at all, and that in fact there is a sort of segregation. Europeans and foreigners of Non-European descent live in differant worlds, and the tolerance of Europeans towards their ethnic minorities decrease. Only on their work and when they are shopping the two peoples meet. Some people mix in interdaith marriages, in multi-cultural organisations, cultural festivals and some mixed area's of the cities. But most people go to differant clubs, pubs, restaurants , schools and holiday destinations.
In the Netherlands you have the phenomenon of White and Black schools, white schools are the schools where white caucasian Duch parents (and other Europeans) send their kids to, and black schools are
the schools of non-European immigrants (often Muslim primary- and high schools). Ofcourse the level of white schools is much higher, because they have no language problem, and not the problem of the children who come from immigrant neigbourhoods (with in many cases sixty nationalities, the Duch Bronx or Harlem).
In mixed schools there are problems between Muslim youth and non-muslims. Due to the changing climate some of the Turks and Maroccans want to go back to Turkey or Marocco.
Because I live in a multi-cultural area of Arnhem with a mixed population of Duch families, students, Yuppies, Turks (a lot of Turks), Maroccans,
people of the Duch Antilles, Suriname and African countries, I do not know exactly how it would be to live in a pure Duch working class- or Middle class neigbourhood outside the city-centre of Arnhem.
In general I believe that the the majorities in Europe and America do not like the inluence of dominant newcommers.
Spanish and Arab is seen as a threat of the original language and culture of the peoples of both continents.
I think people of Europe have no objection to English, because it is a European language. Turkey and Turkish are seen as non-European,
because although Europe has ancient Muslimminorities (such as the Tartars in Poland and Slavian Mulsims in the countries of former Yugoslavia) Europeans regard Islam as a alien religion.
Poles feel themselves Europeans, and are rooted in the European
tradition of science, philosophy, humanism, Bach, Kant, Freud and Einstein. Poland was mentally oriented more on Western and Southern-Europe (Rome) than on the East, and that's why I think that Poles can fit in the American culture so well.

Pieter

Pieter,
My parents came from Poland, well under the Russian and Prussian rulers at the time. They spoke no English. There children learned English and tried very hard to fit into the American social culture. Many of the family even changed there Polish sounding names to Anglisized versions to fit it. Most worked in smelter, slaughterhouses and cleaning hotel rooms. The children went to school and got better jobs. But the persistance of the 'dumb pollack' jokes were around and still exist today. The second generation lost the Polish accent and children do not even have one now.
And now most of the family is scattered to the winds and don't get together like in the past. The Polish community was tight knit in those days. Now they are Americanized and many do not even know much about their heritage.

Dear Kuba,

Where your parents from before the first world war or do you mean with
Prussian rulers, Kaiser Wilhelm 1 of the German empire.
In that days Poland was occupied bu three occupiers, Russia, Prussia and Austria. Form your words I make up the fact that many first generation immigrants spoke no English.
It is like in Europe, the first generation of immigrants often do not speak the Europeab language. But the American society integrates immigrants better, because you are English speaking.
It is said to hear that many of your family even changed their Polish sounding names to Anglisized versions to fit it.
It is good that the children went to school and got better jobs, because many immigrants today stay in backward positions, because they get no chance to fit in the system. Latino's in America, Turks and Maroccans in Europe. I heard of the 'dumb pollack' jokes, but never experianced it live "luckily", they must be simular to the jokes about Turks and Belgians in the Netherlands.
With the losing of the Polish accent, the changing names and intermariages with non-Polish Americans it is said but logical that people lose their heritage or historical cultural awareness.
My mother is a Duch-enised formal Pole, and my father is Duch, I did not grow up with Polish, like children who have two Polish speaking parents, and that's why I did not learn the language (a language I consider very difficult, because of it's complicated grammar).
I recognise your words. My family is scattered to the winds too and we don't get together like in the past. I think that it has also to do with the younger generations who are less family oriented, and live more in social networks of friends and colleages.
Immigrants in Europe are also Europanized, and many young immigrants do not know much about their heritage, but in the same time are not totaly European. They are alianated sometimes, not totally European, but also like their parents. That is a problem in Europe.
Is it not problematic that many Americans are separated from their past? What roots, what culture gives a land who is 250 years old?
The American culture is in full development, where the European culture
is finished (very old), because it is changing with the large influence of American culture and the immigrant cultures of the rest of the world.
Especially the Muslim culture, Azian and African culture.
Europe is (due to it's low birthrate and old population in combination with a huge immigrant population with much youngsters) becomming a Multi-cultural continent, multi-ethnic and multi-religiously.
Islam, hinuduism and Buddhism are growing here, also amongst the native populations. Eastern-Europe and especially Poland is exception,
because the vast majority of the population belongs to the national native original population and is christian (95% of the Poles is Catholic),
in the Netherlands Secular group is the biggest, and the Islam is the second religion with one million of the 16 million people.
Poland is a positive example in a fast changing Europe.

Pieter

Pieter,

My parents came to the US in 1998 from Prussian Controled Poland. They sailed out of Hamburg to New York. They lived in Cleveland Ohio for a year and then moved to Denver where they were married in 1900. The spoke no English only Polish. America has been pretty good about integrating immigrants. But now the immigrants don't want to learn English but impose their language on those of us in the US.
Especially the Mexicans, Vietnamese and Phillipinoes.
And Polish immigrants changed there Polish sounding names to english ones to fit in.
I heard Pollack jokes all my life but the one that upset me most was when my daughter at the age of 7 came home from school and asked my why Polish people were so dumb.
Your right the Polish grammer is tough. However, in my case most of the Polish I learned was from my mother so I tend to use female endings, not good but I am understood.
I have never taken a Polish class in speaking, writing or reading. So it's all been my own studying.
America is a young country, not many roots to experience here. Everything is new relative to Europe. We don't have old castles, artwork etc.
Most people in the US are christians about 75 percent. How many are catholic I don't know.
Islam is growing here as well. But with the terroists it's been a difficult time for them.
Poland is most definitely a positive example on the European scene. I hope she continues her growth.

Jim/Kuba

Pieter,

Mistake it should read 1898 not 1998, Jim

Jim,

Thanks for your rpely and sorry for answering so late.
So your parents came from the Western part of Poland? Did they came from Polish Silezia? Yes many Eastern European immigrants sailed to New York from the Western ports of Hamburg, Rotterdam and Antwerp.
Being over a century ago, now you and your children must have become real Americans and Californians. Is San Diego a nice city?
It must have been a more difficult time than today in 1900, because most of the immigrants where poor and the living conditions back than were less than today. In that time Protestantism was stil dominant, and Catholics did not belong to the elite (the political and economical class was anglo-saxon Prebysterian, Methodist or maybe anglican).
How did your parents survive when tehy spoke only Polish in an English speaking country? Did they live in a Polish neigbourhood?
How can immigrants not learn English, and in the same time functionate in society? Do they have their own state in a state.
I hear a lot of English speaking Americans (from differant sources) who are irritated about the people who do not want to speak English, especially the latin-Americans (Mexicans). America is an English speaking country so people should speak English. In Holland Duch people are irritated about immigrants who speak Turkish or Arab. We are in the Netherlands and you have to speak Duch to be able to live, work and study here, they and I think (too).
I did not know that the same thing was the matter with Vietnamese and Phillipinoes, because I thought that Asians always assimilate well.
Whell in Holland they do. Vietnamese, Indonesians and Chinese speak Duch here or they are invisible. A problem for asians who do not speak teh language is isolation, because they are tiny minorities.
It is irritating when people say that Polish people are so dumb.
I hope that that is not stil present today, because jokes in Holland about stupid Turks (dumb guestworkers) was damaging for the relationship between peoples. The Turks do not like the Duch and vice versa.
What the Duch like like other European is the Mass tourism in Turkey.

You were fortunate to have two Polish speaking parents and are able to speak the language, even if you tend to use female endings. I do not speak Polish at all, and that sadens me sometimes. Not being able to listen and understand the Polish converstions of my mother with her family or other Poles in Poland.
It's good that you were so autodidact that you studied Polish yourself (with the memory of your Polish parents in the back of your mind, remebering the Polish from your mother).
Poland looks maybe more like America than Western-Europe when you look how many people are or call themselves christian.
The Netherlands are more or less a secular country, although most people have the roots and the culture of Catholicism and Protestantism of their ancesters. You can see that, because of the many churches in towns, villages and cities. My parents come from those two christian directions, but my father accepted my mothers Catholicism, and so in my youth we went to the Catholic church. I have the culture, but am not a churchgoer, you could call
me a cultural catholic, or a secular (calvinist) Catholic.

I aggree with your optimism about Poland, an I too hope she continues her growth. I will go back there soon, because I really want to know the country and culture better.

Pieter