BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Yesterday at the Dr.'s office

I'm new here, my very first post. I read quite a lot on your site and I want to thank you for it. It allows me to realize there are other sane people out there who are "aware" of themselves. They are making smart decisions based on reality and looking ahead to the future with their eyes open.

I am a psychotherapist. I hear daily about the "issues" parents have with kids, I feel many ailments in this society are cured with children...or they try to. To hear a woman say "We had children to fix our marriage" is an indicator of what is happening. I don't hear that sort of thing occasionally, I hear it all the time.

My wife and I have made a conscious (I made this decision a long time ago) to not have children. I am too free and I have plans for the future that do not include children. I feel the world is also overpopulated and I also do not like what I see when I see the "ball-n-chain with diapers" situation so many face. I do not see a child as my outlet or an excuse for love (nor innocent for that matter...more on that one later). I see loving people as my task. I wonder where the adults I work with fit into this, they are the ones having the kids. So I have made my practice (recently), child free. I help the adults who have the children now. They are more important to me at this point, and they do not get the automatic "free ride" most kids receive in the mind of most people regarding their actions. It is a vicious circle. Everyone tells me what a wonderful father I would be. I deal with children compassionately and I know what to say and how to get rapport with them, I can even tell you how to discipline them and have it actually work, to treat them like...well...adults. However I am not going to be a father, it is probably the most skin crawling thing I can think of. The reason for this opposite view? I have a mind.

Yesterday I went to the Chiropractor. Usually my appointment is during the week early in the AM. But I went on a Saturday this week.

The receptionist was holding her baby and many were paying attention to her. I was completely ignored even though I had to be checked in.

Then a couple brought in their two young little girls (I'd say about 4 & 5). I have had pleasant conversations in that waiting room in the past, met a lot of good people with lots of good conversation. But not this time. This time it would be an all encompassing seige on my patience (which I have an abundance of). The children wanted to read the books there...allof them. They tore everything apart, it appeared as if a bomb hit the place. More importantly, the parents felt this was perfectly fine.

The Mom (and Dad) made feeble attempts to quelch their daughters behavior. I felt "these little girls know just how exactly to manipulate their parents." They were very loud, obnoxious and rude. The parents still made more feeble attempts, with a low "Lana, get up off the floor." She was floor swimming on a public floor and they did nothing.

The young teenage girl accross from me was smiling at the behavior. The other woman there was on her cellphone and was being harrassed but said to the person on the other end: "There's and adorable little girl staring at me" and then she calmly walked out to finish her call.

"Was I the only one who saw what was happening?!" I thought. The little girls tried to get my attention but I ingored them, I am an expert. I was not going to condone this behavior...however the parents were about to get an earful from me. Everone there seemed perfectly fine with all of this nonsense.

Eventually the father went in for his visit. Now the mom was contending with these two alone (not much difference really). Except now one of them (Lana) was crying for her father and opened the waiting room door and ran in to get him. The mom went after her (slowly) and feebly attempted to stop her. Another lady inside said "it's okay, let her go..." "WHAT!" I thought! "HOLY %#@%$!"

After more bantering the little girls and their ill-equipped parents finally departed and a silence and peace fell over the waiting room. I noticed after that that the parents were consumed by these kids the whole time. For 35 minutes of this, they kept picking things up, feebly scolding their daughters (no doubt to make it look like they were doing something besides being irresponsible), and trying to entertain these kids.

I was so happy and excited at that moment I had no children I laughed out loud.

My point in this story is to show how clueless parents and other adults are about this. I am certain you all have stories the same or more blatant.

It is a fact that the enlightened or highly advanced spiritual masters/teachers (past and present) have traditionally had the least children (basically none at all). When I got my degree in Archeological Theology I was interested to find out this fact. But it never seemed answered until years later for me. I have noticed a common theme on this site, with most people being very intelligent and I think that is no mistake. People who are more aware, know that they can give their love to the world (it sure needs it) instead of making a supposed package that it is easier to give it to. In other words, the world is more difficult to love, other people, other adults too. But somehow we know that is where it must go. Even though many on here (including me) are in some stage of being perturbed by what we see with others, and even though this is causing a temporary state of disgruntlement...it seems we are the most "aware" people on the whole. I am not trying to be elitist but I would debate that with anyone.

"It's different when it's your own," they say. What that means is that I will see MY own different even though I know I should learn to love everyone. I believe that is where we are all going, Kids are too easy an excuse to "find"love with. It is a testament to our current situation that many parents cannot even do that...love their kids.

Keith

PS- Would you still be okay with it being "your own" and it being different if they turned 18 and crapped in the house on the living room floor? Now it's not okay, they are still your own...what happened?

Wonderful post. And yes, it's refreshing to see that many CFers are people who have thought of their choice carefully.

Great post! If you get a chance check out my post under "Questions potential parents should ask themselves." I talk about a breeder friend of mine...she proves over and over, everytime I talk to her that she just didn't THINK about her decision.

Great post! I see this behavior often in stores, doctors' offices, etc. but I have no patience for it. I either walk out or I glare at the parents until they either get mad at me or feel guilty enough to make their spoiled monsters behave.

And if you even are brave enough to tell them not to hit their kid or whatever, they get mad because you're butting in on their private life.

Welcome Dr. Keith! You will meet many kindred spirits here <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have commented on a few of y'alls threads, but for the most part, if you notice, I have been supportive of all of your decisions to remain childfree.

A couple of times I posted because I looked at the title and didn't bother to glance over at what forum it was listed under. One time I posted under "fur babies" because I received a cute e-mail that just seemed to fall right into line with what everyone on that board was saying.

I have never tried to say you'll feel differently after you've had kids, because I know there are some poeple whose lives will work better without children. I even posted under the religion one that one of our pastors had chosen to remain childfree, because I thought that might help some of the others.

But I find it extrememly offensive for anyone to say that I am of inferior intelligence just because I had children! My first child suffer's from Asperger's. His father left us. i raised my son from a rage-filled, out of control, "typical" autistic kid to a 14 yr old who sits 1st chair in the sax section, plays football, took 2 silver medals in kayaking, took the math award for the entire 7th grade last year.

I worked my butt off to help him with all of this. I went to college on a full 4 year scholarship with an extra music scholarship thrown in to cover my private vocal & piano lessons. The very ironic thing was I was studying music therapy. The only "stupid" thing I did was to quit college because I "fell in love" at age 19 (which I chalk up more to naivete than true stupidity) and yes this was my first marriage from which my autistic son came.

His principal of the school here in GA when we 1st moved back tried to blame his behavior on my lack of discipline (even after I explained the counseling Michael was going through) I pulled up my sleeves and showed him the claw marks, the bruises, the bruises around my neck and claw marks on my back, the bald spots in my hair. I DID discipline my son, not through beatings, but by holding him until he could get control - but most other people didn't see that. And when I had to physically carry him out of a Wal-mart with him screaming all I could hear are other people saying "well if that were my kid, I'd just give him a good beating." I love my son and I never gave up on him.

And that DOES NOT make me a less intelligent person then you Dr. Keith, I don't care what degrees you have compared to what I have. All that comes down to is who had what opportunities to accomplish things in college. I made a teenager's mistake that I had to pay for. I'm sure you never made any of those. You just got lucky that your mistakes didn't impact the rest of your life.

Just for the record, our marital problems started after we found out Michael was "different". We didn't have him to "fix" a problem. His dad couldn't handle that there was anything wrong with his child.

I think we have to make one thing clear. There are two kinds of people we accept: wonderful parents and the childfree. There's a third category, and that consists of bad parents. If we accidentally say "parents," we mean the bad ones. I think it happens because some of us see so many bad parents out there that we may momentarily forget the great ones.

If you have kids and are wonderful in caring for them, that's great. I respect you for that. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Music Mom,

You have accomplished a great deal. Raising a child, especially a child with special needs, by yourself is an enormous accomplishment. It is at least as much of an accomplishment as aquiring two or three degrees.

Eventhough I don't make hurtful remarks about kids and parents, I am going to apologize on behalf of those who do. I wish there were more parents out there like you who are openminded enough to respect a choice that is different from your own.

But I find it extrememly offensive for anyone to say that I am of inferior intelligence just because I had children!

>>What I was saying was not quite you are offended about, I was stating that traditionally people without children have been in positions of high spiritual mastery...sorry if this offends, but...<<


I worked my butt off to help him with all of this. I went to college on a full 4 year scholarship with an extra music scholarship thrown in to cover my private vocal & piano lessons. The very ironic thing was I was studying music therapy. The only "stupid" thing I did was to quit college because I "fell in love" at age 19 (which I chalk up more to naivete than true stupidity) and yes this was my first marriage from which my autistic son came.

>>I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. It seems I've hit a nerve with you. By the way Michelle, I too fell in love, except me at 16...I never got married though and had the sense not to get her pregnant.<<

His principal of the school here in GA when we 1st moved back tried to blame his behavior on my lack of discipline (even after I explained the counseling Michael was going through) I pulled up my sleeves and showed him the claw marks, the bruises, the bruises around my neck and claw marks on my back, the bald spots in my hair. I DID discipline my son, not through beatings, but by holding him until he could get control - but most other people didn't see that. And when I had to physically carry him out of a Wal-mart with him screaming all I could hear are other people saying "well if that were my kid, I'd just give him a good beating." I love my son and I never gave up on him.

<<Sounds like a story of compelling love. But I'm still not certain what this has to do with me or my post.<<

And that DOES NOT make me a less intelligent person then you Dr. Keith, I don't care what degrees you have compared to what I have. All that comes down to is who had what opportunities to accomplish things in college. I made a teenager's mistake that I had to pay for. I'm sure you never made any of those. You just got lucky that your mistakes didn't impact the rest of your life.

<<I never said it did but Ahh, and here we have a typical judgement. You see, I waited long enough and you showed my posts meaning to some degree. You have no idea of who I am, yet you state that I "got lucky" that my mistakes didn't impact the rest of my life. I'm sorry but I am chuckling at this point. Michelle, ALL of our mistakes impact us in some way. The one thing I have learned as a therapist is that everyone has their story, everyone has their grief...including me. But I find it highly interesting you saw fit to share it with everyone on this post and play the wounded soul. I don't know you, I never visited here before, but it seems your post contains a lot of subterfuge and "poor me," type of nonsense.<<

>>I never compared my degrees to anyone at all ever, A degree does not make one anything, you're barking up the wrong tree blaming me for this position. I for one think that many things come naturally and many instinctive, but I KNOW for a fact that a Degree does not make me anything...actually all I learned was mainly learned outside of college, in the field. A degree is a title and that's all. What school mainly taught me was what not to teach. Any wisdom I possess came from getting beaten to a pulp by life. I climbed out of holes that were dark and deep. I am certain everyone has (or will). I believe it is you who assumed you were not good enough because of a "degree" that was not gotten. You feel you were unlucky, I feel my traumas and devistations in my life were growing opportunities. It sounds to me you are using your situation as your identity and being an elitist. I had no degree when I did not get married at 16, or 19 and I had no degree when I had no children at 19 either. <<

Just for the record, our marital problems started after we found out Michael was "different". We didn't have him to "fix" a problem. His dad couldn't handle that there was anything wrong with his child.

>>Who's "record" Michelle? I'm sorry you may have been hurt by my post. But I am not sorry for your circumstances. I think the larger the trauma, the more opportunity for change that will help us grow. The problem is when people begin doing what you have apparently been taught to do...get angry at everyone else for your mistakes.<<