BellaOnline Forums News and Politics Animal Life Very hot -- and controversial -- topic in my town

I hope I am not opening up a can of worms here but I am really interested to hear what your views are on this one. Last weekend, there was a horrific attack on a man who was caring for and walking his friend's pitbulls. They turned on him and almost killed him. It is not yet known if he will lose his leg; his injuries are extensive. The dogs were shot by police and every single one of the witnesses say they are relieved. The dogs were known to be vicious and the owner was known to be very unpleasant, as well.


Unfortunately, this debate comes up every time there is another attack by pitbulls. There have already been deaths, and more often than not, the victims are children. The debate is basically over whether or not to ban pitbulls altogether. I did hear the executive director of the Humane Society of Canada on the radio today say that he does not believe that outright banning is the solution people seem to think it is but that he would fully support legislation to make mandatory dog training and mandatory licensing for dog owners (especially breeds and cross-breeds such as pitbulls) a law. There is some validity to the fact that a dog which is trainable should be trained properly and that the owner MUST be responsible and if he isn't, then he must face the ultimate penalty. But, on the other side of the coin is the fact that some dogs (such as pitbulls) are genetically more likely to be aggressive and more likely to attack, whether provoked or not, and no matter how trained they are. Some are even bred and trained to attack police officers and once trained to attack, well, it's a disaster waiting to happen. My question is (and it sounds like the old Peter, Paul and Mary song!), how many deaths will it take until something is FINALLY done? I wonder, if a politican's child was the next victim, would this legislation suddenly take on a new importance.....?


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Content...ol=968793972154

This topic comes up often. Many places in the states have banned pitbulls. Genetically inclined to be more aggressive doesn't mean that ALL pitbulls are aggressive. Being so general is dangerous too. And just how trainable is ANY animal? That is debatable as well.

Our precious dog, Homer, was an extremely well trained dog. He didn't even need voice command. He would respond to hand signals as well. Even from a hundred yards away. But, I would never have left him alone with a small child. He was "protector" of all the people in his life. He was known to get between an adult and a child if he thought the adult was harming the child. Especially if play got too rough. We have fond memories of our children faking being hurt to see if Homer would "save them". He always did. But, at the same time, his defensive manner for them could have become aggressive toward them. There is little difference in the animal's mind given certain situations. Animals can only reason so far...

Pitbulls are not the only dogs that kill children or other people. Many breeds have killed before. I don't have the numbers, but I would hazard a guess that there are other dog breeds that have killed as many (or more) than pitbulls. Do we ban all potentially aggressive dogs? Dogs that weigh over a certain number of pounds? I don't think so.

The best preventative to these terrible deaths is education. People should be aware of the potential dangers of dogs. They should report any animal that is aggressive toward them or anyone else. The owner should have to prove the animal is trained, current on it's rabies shots, and be restrained or under the owner's control at all times. If an animal is proven to be dangerous and/or the owner irresponsible, the animal should be removed from the owner, evaluated as to it's level of danger to people in general, and either put down or placed in a home that is trained to handle such a dog.

It is late, past my bed time, so I hope there are few typos, and what I've typed makes sense.

Rose

The mandatory licensing will not work. It is unenforcable (will officers go door-to-door to see if you have pets?) and the very people who should license are the ones who won't. Also, if they used veterinarian records to keep tabs on pet ownership, it would force those people to NOT take their pets to the vet. Same for getting records from pet stores, pounds, and breeders. People will just do what they've done for centuries when something is legislated, go to the unscrupulous dealers. That's what will happen, too, if a particular breed is outlawed. Rose is right, education IS the answer.

There was an episode of Cops that I saw last weekend. A woman's rottweiler (sp?) got loose and supposedly threatened a local business man. When the cops got there, the dog was bleeding from the mouth (from being kicked in the head) and the business owner was sitting on top of the dog. The dog catcher came and put the dog into his truck. The police went to the owner, who also had a pitbull. The pitbull was extremely friendly to the cops and never even barked. The woman went to the truck and they showed a scene that just broke my heart. She stood at the back of the truck, both hands gripping the cage, her head against the bars, looking at the dog she loved, knowing she'd never see him again.

There are many sides, and emotions, to this issue.

Marian

I'm a strong advocate of special licensing. I agree that we should not give any kind of enforcement responsibility to veterinarians, however.

I think that enforcement should come from citizens� ability to report possible violations � before anyone gets hurt by a particular dog. So if your neighbor has a seemingly vicious pit bull, for example, and the pit bull is not being cared for properly or is being allowed to roam the neighborhood causing havoc, you could call it in and have a computer search done based on the neighbor's address to see whether the dog is specially registered. I believe all dogs who cannot meet the registration requirements should be taken from their owners. Registration requirements could include special training, and it would be nice if they would include an evaluation or two by a specialized dog handler (for safety) a couple of times during the dog's life span.

I don't feel this would be an unfair burden on dog owners in light of what's at stake - the lives of humans and other animals. Also, anyone who is not serious about a certain breed need not adopt that breed in the first place.

I suspect the difficult - and costliest - part of creating such legislation would be determining which breeds should be added to the "list" for requiring special registration.

Pit bulls might be considered a "no brainer" by many, but what about German Shepards and German Shepard mixes, for example? There are LOTS of German Shepard mixes out there. In fact, I have one - and guess what? He needs special handling and training because he is overly defensive, and he will bite people if not controlled carefully. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I also am a very strong believer that we should impose special requirements on anyone who willfully breeds dogs. I believe that a permit and/or special certification should be required for anyone who wants to breed dogs, and anyone who breeds without one should be subject to fines and their animals taken and spayed and neutered before being returned to them.

I realize that creating and implementing laws like these would be complicated at first, but I sure wish these problems would be taken more seriously by governments.

Is it a documented fact that pitbulls are genetically programmed to be aggressive? I've read in a few sources that they are actually very loving dogs. And the two pitbull mixex we had were very loving and never showed an ounce of aggression toward anyone we know.

I think because of their physical traits (jaw strength) that they are often trained to be aggressive. I also think that due to their physical traits that people are afraid of them because if they choose to harm you they can inflict a lot of damage. But do they really choose to any more than any other breed? German shepherds have been known to show aggression because of their extreme protective trait, but we aren't as afraid of them as we are pitbulls. Heck, I've seen some pretty nasty little chihuahuas and poodles with some bad-[censored] attitudes. My grandmother's poodle used to bite our ankles from underneath the couch. But of course since these dogs are little and can't cause much damage, we don't want licenses or regulations against them. My aunt's chihuahua would bit your nose off if you fell asleep and didn't shut the bedroom door.

I agree licensing would be very hard to regulate and would create situations where people would just get around that law. Mandatory spay and neutering is nearly impossible to enforce too. Did you know that there are more pitbull mixes in shelters than any other dog? It's not because they are mean and nasty, it's because they are such popular dogs and they are not spayed or neutered so they are bred by nearly every other breed, creating these overabundances of mixes. Most of them that come into our shelter are sweethearts.

As far as requiring special training...that's very expensive and a lot of people couldn't afford it. So does that mean they are unfit dog owners of those breeds? I foster dogs and train them myself. Of course, any dog aggressive to people is not going to make it out of our shelter. But those that we get are very trainable by loving owners. So think of how many dogs would be put down because good people who could have trained the dogs themselves couldn't afford to have special training for the dogs.

I raise American Bulldogs, English Bulldogs and Pit Bulls.....

Pit Bulls are great dogs in the right hands, and I will be the first to agree that they are not for everyone. They are active and energetic and too much dog for some to handle. If you take the time to give the right care and training, the rewards will be many, but you also need to be a responsible owner to have one of these dogs. The problem pits are the ones that are in the wrong hands, owners that don't take the responsibility and the time to train these dogs, or the owners that think it's a macho status symbol to have a pit that is aggressive.

They can be sooooo silly, they love their bully sprints around the living room,they flail around upside down on their backs, they are such clowns. They can and do get along with other dogs and animals. They are capable of getting along with other animals, but it depends on the individual dogs temperament, the training and socializing. I know quite a few people that successfully keep multiple Pits and other pets in the same household. I have four in the house and the only two that fight are the jack russell and the shihtzu.

There is prejudice, and sometimes it is deserved. My advice to anyone is to ignore any prejudice and let your dogs temperament and performance work its magic.

I myself love pit bulls and other bulldog breeds. They definitely are some of the cutest with great little quirky personalities. I'm sure many pit bulls do not have a tendency toward aggression at all.

There's just a stereotype about them, that's why I mentioned them above as a "no brainer" for society. In my opinion, people actually should be more cautious about German shepards (shepherds) than they are - and less cautious about pit bulls!

I do think what happens is that certain breeds have been targeted by irresponsible people and taught aggression, and so there are genetic strains that are aggressive for that reason. It's an indirect form of animal abuse, in my opinion. (That's one of the reasons I advocate restrictions on breeding.)

It's not the poor dogs' fault, afterall. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Even German shepherds have been trained to be aggressive - weren't they trained by the Nazis in Germany?

Don't get me wrong - I've had a few German shepherds and they are the most loyal and loving you can imagine. They just need to be in responsible homes. It's the irresponsible home and especially the irresponsible breeding I'm most concerned about.

(The recent killing of the girl in San Francisco by the presa canario dogs, for example, was a result of irresponsible training (drug lab guard dogs, as far as I understand) and irresponsible owners/guardians. And the dogs ended up being euthanized because of it.)

Great topic, Shelley! I don't think it's a negative can of worms - I like to see this issue talked about. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, all, for your thoughtful input. This is one of those topics that there really is no one answer for, and never will be. I agree that education is the way to go but, as was said here by more than one of you, the ones who most need to be educated, are the ones who are least likely to actually to *get it*.

I've heard it said that this is like the gun issue: is it guns which kill people or people who kill people? Or the drunk driver issue: is it cars which kill people or drivers who kill people?

Sadly, irresponsible pet ownership is usually the bottom line in most pet aggression, for all the reasons mentioned above. Maybe those horrible owners ought to be the ones put down....


Shelley, with tongue only partly planted in cheek.... <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Being a Pit owner/breeder I know when one is aggressive and bites, sadly, it needs to be put down. The aggressive behavior has been reinforced in them early in life by irresponsible owners, and most often they can not be retrained. I also think the owner of the aggressive animal should be prosecuted. Maybe if this was done the owners would be more responsible.