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Intermarriage #146573
03/19/03 08:51 PM
03/19/03 08:51 PM
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Posts: 9
Paula, Judaism Host Offline OP
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Paula, Judaism Host  Offline OP
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What are your thoughts and views about intermarriage (intermarriage being defined as a marriage between a Jewish person and non-Jewish person who does not convert)?

- Paula


Judaism @ BellaOnline.com
http://judaism.bellaonline.com
Re: Intermarriage #146574
04/27/03 12:54 AM
04/27/03 12:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,873
Indiana
Lynne - ChristianLiving Offline
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Lynne - ChristianLiving  Offline
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Wolf

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Posts: 5,873
Indiana
Speaking as a Christian, if both parties were firm in their belief, I think marriage would be a bad idea. It is hard enough for any two people to live together harmoniously without throwing in more discord. eek
Spiritual beliefs become more and more important as the years pass. Not being able to share one's inmost faith would be a sad life.

Re: Intermarriage #146575
04/27/03 08:05 PM
04/27/03 08:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1
Phoenix , Az
katrinae Offline
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katrinae  Offline
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Not a good idea. Usually, one should marry someone from his own homeland. Mixing is possible, but not when diffrent cultures and religions are in the middle. My view, anyway ...

Re: Intermarriage #146576
05/24/03 09:43 PM
05/24/03 09:43 PM
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ickash Offline
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ickash  Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paula, Judaism Host:
[qb] What are your thoughts and views about intermarriage (intermarriage being defined as a marriage between a Jewish person and non-Jewish person who does not convert)?

My Mom was Catholic and my Dad was Jewish. They divorced but not for religous differences. There is no reason interfaith marriages should fail or succeed anymore or less frequently than any other.

I married a Catholic girl and that marriage failed. Now I have succeeded with a Lutheran girl...What does it mean? Not much

Sam Owens


- Paula [/qb]

Re: Intermarriage #146577
06/24/03 09:50 PM
06/24/03 09:50 PM

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Anonymous
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Personally, I'll never marry someone who isn't Jewish again. I married my high school sweetheart, thinking that love would make everything else work. He was Atheist, I was raised conservadox.
We've now got three children who have no idea of their Jewish heritage mostly because he refuses to acknowledge it. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Re: Intermarriage #146578
02/21/04 06:53 PM
02/21/04 06:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,698
USA
JanetBoyer Offline
Zebra
JanetBoyer  Offline
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I'm not Jewish, but I think that if 2 people are dogmatic in their beliefs, it's a recipe for trouble. If the couple is open minded and realize spirituality is fluid, it could work. Like any coupling, it depends on the individuals involved.

Re: Intermarriage #146579
11/01/04 05:27 PM
11/01/04 05:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 662
Netherlands
pieter Offline
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pieter  Offline
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Netherlands
Janet,

Even when both people are moderate, un-orthodox,
and secular, like my Duch enlightend protestant
(liberal-conservative) father and my Catholic (Polish
origin) mother. Ethnic, cultural, and political differances may cause tensions.

But in practise humanity is One, and the world is full of
Intermarriages and halfbloods. In Holland there are millions of them. The Latino population of your country
is a mix of Spanish invaders and Indian natives.
Many jews became christian in the past (forced and out of free will via intermarriage).
I know jews who are very worried about that.
But in Holland where there is a very small jewish community, many jews chose a non-jewish partners.
Also because many jews are secular or very liberal.
The Orthodox jews reject that, and only accept intermarriage when the partner does "Giur" (Conversion to Judaism at a Orthodox shul).

Re: Intermarriage #146580
11/24/04 11:19 PM
11/24/04 11:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9
Paula, Judaism Host Offline OP
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Paula, Judaism Host  Offline OP
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It's pretty much the same throughout the Jewish world, Pieter -- I think even at the Conservative level intermarriage is only accepted when there has been a conversion (except that conversions done through the Conservative branch are not recognized by Orthodox either. Only Orthodox conversions are universal). And after someone converts, it is no longer 'intermarriage' - it is then a marriage between two Jews.
- Paula


Judaism @ BellaOnline.com
http://judaism.bellaonline.com
Re: Intermarriage #146581
11/29/04 08:15 PM
11/29/04 08:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,698
USA
JanetBoyer Offline
Zebra
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USA
Hi Pieter,

If you think about it, anything can be cause for tension in a relationship: religion, politics, views on child-rearing, spousal roles, social activities (with or without the spouse), and so on. I do agree that humanity is One, and it seems to me that boundaries of any sort are really humanity's own creation.

I respect those who want to preserve their heritage, but I think that focusing on "purity" can often cause strain and division on many levels.

Just some thoughts. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(Btw, Paula, I rented Sunshine at Netflix because of your review, and thought it was a good film. I'm a big fan of Ralph Fiennes, but surprisingly, never heard of that movie until your review!)

Re: Intermarriage #146582
12/03/04 12:02 AM
12/03/04 12:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 662
Netherlands
pieter Offline
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pieter  Offline
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Netherlands
Paula,

I totally aggree with your comment. It is right!
I heard the same from jews on the Duch Forum when they gave advice to a Goi woman who wanted to marry her jewish boyfriend. Liberal and conservative conversions are not recognized by the orthodox and the law of the state of Israel.
I know the son of a liberal Rabbi whose wife converted herself from Catholic to liberal judaism.
Although she lives a completely jewish life she is only recognised by her husbants shul.

I just came back from South-Africa where I stayed in our family appartment opposite the sinagogue in marais road in Sea point a neighbourhood where many jews live and work. It's a lovely neighbourhood.

I never heard jewish religious songs, but there I heard it saturday morning from the shul outside our appartment.
They sing nice. Why do only the men sing?

Re: Intermarriage #146583
01/13/05 01:56 AM
01/13/05 01:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13
kazue Offline
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kazue  Offline
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Pieter ~

Only the men sing in the Orthodox tradition because a woman's voice raised in song is considered seductive - it would distract the men from their G-dly focus in schul. (Also why women cover their hair.) Poor guys! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That's also one of the reasons why men and women are separated in schul. Women are traditionally considered "closer" to G-d (something in the story in Exodus re the golden calf...forget the passage at the moment), men must strive to create that closeness and, therefore, must not be distracted from their efforts.

Kind of funny, isn't it, that western cultures look at this and think of it as repression of women, when, in truth, it is because of women's closeness to the Shekinah.

~WhiteFox

Re: Intermarriage #146584
01/14/05 07:36 PM
01/14/05 07:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 662
Netherlands
pieter Offline
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pieter  Offline
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Netherlands
White Fox,

Thank you for your interesting and important information to me. I just finished reading "My
name is Asher Lev" from Chaim Potok.
I receive a newsletter from a Duch Othrodox rabbi
every week. A lot of Torah, jewish history, jewish
philosophy, talmud, a little bit Midrash and kabala.
The core of the message is always how to behave
as a rightious jew. Also receive news about
the food laws. Every now and than an article is
declared kosher or not kosher by a rabbinical council.
Living an orhtodox life seems difficult to me,
but for an orthodox jew loving g'd with all his heart,
soul and mind and living according the law is a very
joyful and normal thing to do.
Yesterday I saw a BBC documentry about the Kabalah
centre of mister Berg (Madonna follows his branch).
Other (real) Kabbalists and rabbi's condemned this misleading sect. Judaism interests me, because it is the
fundament of the Monotheist world religions Christianity and Islam. I read and learn a lot about religion, because of the books of my former history teacher study.

Again thanks, White Fox, I did not knew what you told us above here.

Pieter

Re: Intermarriage #146585
06/29/06 09:03 PM
06/29/06 09:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
ally465 Offline
Jellyfish
ally465  Offline
Jellyfish

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Posts: 161
Quote:
What are your thoughts and views about intermarriage (intermarriage being defined as a marriage between a Jewish person and non-Jewish person who does not convert)?


I agree that it's rarely a good idea, even between a non-observant Jew and non-Jew. The reason is that the Jewish person may grow and change and wish to become more observant, and that's when the trouble begins. I've seen so many marriages that start out with the philosophy, "Oh, we're not at all religious, and we'll rear our children without any specific religion," turn very sour. If the Jewish parent begins to infuse Judaism into the children's education, then the non-Jewish parent feels threatened. If the non-Jewish parents does the same with a different religion, then Jewish person feels guilty because he's contributing to another generation that is snuffing out the Jewish religion.

It's about enough when a Reform Jew marries a Conservative Jew! Throw an atheist or Baptist (!) in the mix, and that's one poisonous brew.

Re: Intermarriage #146586
07/15/06 12:58 AM
07/15/06 12:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
censored Offline
Chipmunk
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Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Pieter ~

Only the men sing in the Orthodox tradition because a woman's voice raised in song is considered seductive - it would distract the men from their G-dly focus in schul. (Also why women cover their hair.) Poor guys! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That's also one of the reasons why men and women are separated in schul. Women are traditionally considered "closer" to G-d (something in the story in Exodus re the golden calf...forget the passage at the moment), men must strive to create that closeness and, therefore, must not be distracted from their efforts.

Kind of funny, isn't it, that western cultures look at this and think of it as repression of women, when, in truth, it is because of women's closeness to the Shekinah.

It does not supprise me that women are closer to god. Women have a softer heart by nature but found your post to be interesting because yes as a western woman I thought women were being repressed so thankyou for the enlightment

~WhiteFox



Thankyou for this... it does not supprise me that women are closer to god as they have softer hearts and I belive that they deffinatley have more to offer to religion than men realise...I belive some (not all) men are threatened by women in the church for this very reason.


Re: Intermarriage #146587
01/03/07 05:20 PM
01/03/07 05:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5
souldiet Offline
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Hi, my name is Rabbi Yitzchak Goldman and I am an Orthodox rabbi - I would like to commend "kazue" for the comments made about women and men - it is rare to find a more educated understanding of these issues (btw I am originally from South Africa and have been to Marais Road Shul several times, although I am from Johannesburg). I would just like to point out though that the Torah doesn't view either sex as being superior to the other. You are correct that women have a greater sense of instinctual affinity to a relationship with G-d: The Talmud says that women are endowed with a greater sense of "binah" than men. Binah means intuitive understanding. The reason she has this is because the word "binah" is directly related to the word "boneh" (same letters in Hebrew) and "boneh" means to build: Eve was "built" -as the verse describes it - from the side of Adam. So in her very formation she was building onto something - her very essence is to build upon an idea. That is why she has greater intuitive understanding: she takes an idea and is able to process or build upon it naturally.
Men however have a different (but not less significant) role. They provide the spark upon which women build. This is why men provide the seed and women nurture and build that seed into a child.

All the best
Yitzchak Goldman
www.souldiet.com

Re: Intermarriage [Re: pieter] #291442
02/08/07 10:17 PM
02/08/07 10:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 62
aTeeDAZ Offline
Amoeba
aTeeDAZ  Offline
Amoeba

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Posts: 62

Shalom

Intermarriage was warned agains in TOrah. The fact that the children of Israel married and brght foreign wives was not the REAL issue; the IDOLS and CUSTOMS attached to life within EGYPT was the threat.

Anytime you weave two unlike threads together there is a pattern of dissonance between the fibers; even when the threasds SEEM to be he same color most knitters purchase their threads all at once so as to obtain the same color LOT number.

We can also see how few years were in Egypt and how many years it took to take Egypt OUT of Israel.

Baruch HaShem!
aTeeDAZ


be fitly blessed,
aTeeDAZ
Re: Intermarriage [Re: pieter] #301899
03/23/07 11:23 PM
03/23/07 11:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 62
aTeeDAZ Offline
Amoeba
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Posts: 62

~Shalom~

Regarding intermarriage between Jewish and non Jewish parnters*

Certainly there is a difference between light and darkness..yes> Indeed we know that G-d placed all elements of Creation in a fasion that works together for our good and for His glory.

Ultra Orthodox and Orthodox conservative Karite and reconstructionists along with Lubavich Chabbad do NOT agree with intermarriage though seekers into the faith are not discouraged.

Reform Branch does accept intermarriage along with other liberal combinations of relational partnering.

One shortcoming of mankinfd is found in second guessing the move of HaShem/G-d.

Why do we place the intent of The Creator Of the Universe in a box?

His LOVE endures forever; certainly the unfathomale depths of the heart and intent of man are known to the Light Of Life Who blesses and confirms what He sees blesses and proclaims IT IS GOOD.

There is agoney in needing to be declaring separatness yet desiring to be united as one. This is a mystery in the letter CHET.

Contentment with Gdliness is great gain.
May we each fnd our lving hope in Him.

Shabbat Shalom.

askarabbi@yahoo.com


be fitly blessed,
aTeeDAZ
Re: Intermarriage [Re: Paula, Judaism Host] #304608
04/03/07 02:08 PM
04/03/07 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
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Los Alamos,NM, USA
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Mike_e Offline
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It's an issue a couple should definately resolve about BEFORE they get married, espceially if children are involved or they plan to have children.

I am Jewish and have been dating a Christian lady for almost 2 years. Neither one of is the least bit observant. We have no kids and will never have any. I have taken the appropriate step to stop a family (got a vasectomy!).

If having a Jewish wife and raising Jewish kids were important to me, I would be living in Israel like my two older brothers. It isn't. I find all aspects of raising children completely unappealing and have ZERO interest in being a parent. I also enjoy a very active outdoor lifestyle which includes long distance road biking, skiing 120 days a year, ice skating and hiking in addition to a full time job at a land surveying company.

As an aside, I have visited Israel 6 times and speak modern Hebrew passably well. The sports section of Yediot or Ma'ariv will always be more interesting to me than any passage of scripture.

For those who think I am selfish after reading the above paragraphs, I offer the following:

1) I am regular contributor to Hadassah and other charitable orgamizations that the local Jewish center supports.
2) In the past seven years, I have raised over $10,000 in a charity ski race at Taos Ski Valley.
Click the links below to read more.
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