BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Bible Basics Can We All Make It To Heaven?

So, what you're saying then, Jenna, is that anyone that does not agree with you 100% or questions the integrity of the Bible or theology is not welcome on this board?

That no one can come to this board and ask questions about your religion and beliefs?

That no one can attempt to discuss exactly which Bible is believed 100% (since denominations can't even agree with one another on topics like hell, salvation, heaven, evil, etc.)?

If I am correct, then where do you propose that these kind of discussions be held since this board is about Christianity and its fundamentals? Are you not confident enough in your faith that you will not allow open discussion?

First of all, I'm new here and I am very impressed with all of you. This is the first board I have been to where no one was flamed for his/her opinions. I see so much respect here.
How wonderful!!!

Now:
"Would someone like Hitler make it to heaven? even if he repented on his deathbed?"

My input on this is Jesus taught us this lesson and asnswered the question while He was hanging on the cross.
The sinner next to him was about to die. He repented and Jesus told him that he would be with the Lord that very day.
So I would be inclined to beleive that if Hitler repented on the moment of his death, he will be in heaven.
God will use him to do good.

Take the apostle Paul. He had slaughtered 1000's of Jews and Christians. But God used him to do good after he repented and accepted God and His teachings.

So, what you're saying then, Jenna, is that anyone that does not agree with you 100% or questions the integrity of the Bible or theology is not welcome on this board?

No to everything but "questions the integrity of the Bible".
To this comment anyone would get the same response I gave earlier. This is the forum I moderate and it is a Christian Forum. Here, we subscribe to the Bible as God's Word.

That no one can come to this board and ask questions about your religion and beliefs?

This is also so not true. This is the place to ask questions about Christianity...but be prepared for the answer to be drawn from scripture. If someone disagrees with my "personal beliefs or religion" then they probably aren't going to agree with my answers here either.

That no one can attempt to discuss exactly which Bible is believed 100% (since denominations can't even agree with one another on topics like hell, salvation, heaven, evil, etc.)?

I understand that there are many interpretations of the Bible (NIV, New King James, New International...etc). But my opinion is that there are many words in the english language that can describe the same event. They are all talking about the same things and I believe that any ordinary human being can interprete the Word of God succinctly to allow it to speak to their hearts. I don't play semantics.

If I am correct, then where do you propose that these kind of discussions be held since this board is about Christianity and its fundamentals?

I hate to say it, but Janet, you are not correct on this one. And I think you have a great following amongst your readers...and then some... so I'm sure you could take the topic of whether the Bible is truth or not into your own forum at New Age and have a wonderful discussion.

Are you not confident enough in your faith that you will not allow open discussion?

This comment about my faith and the strength of it is just not worthy to be commented on, but I will: My faith is a personal journey and I have worked hard at learning what I have learned. My source has been the Lord and His Word. So questioning it would be like questioning my integrity and I'm sure that no one here would do that. As I've stated many times, all are welcome here to discuss their views on Christianity. That includes the Bible, Jesus, The Holy Spirit and all they encompass...but we will adhere to the Bible as truth and Jesus as the Son of God and the Holy Trinity. These are the basics of Christianity. I will not stray away from this perspective and I will not allow the participants of discussion here to stray anyone else away either.

I'm sorry if it doesn't jibe with someones feelings, that's not my intention. I simply have been given this forum and I intend to keep it genuine. People come here to find out Biblical truths and I think we have to keep it pure and honest according to the Word of God. If I was to go to another forum and insist on this, it would be wrong. But this is my forum and it is entitled "Christianity" and christian is what it will stay.

Welcome Tooee,

Thank you for your kind words. I love your reference to the theif on the cross. That is exactly what salvation is to me. It is grace extended tome when I least deserve it.

And Paul is one of my heroes. ow hard it must have been for the apostles and disciples who accepted him based on what the Lord Jesus had done for him.

I hope you continue to come here and express your opinions.

Hello, Jenna,

Goosie's thread appeared on your board, not mine. She asked a question, and I provided answers according to my understanding. Understanding the word origins of Heaven and Hell as well as theology is a part of how I answered Goosie's question. I don't dispute that the Bible contains truth. What I dispute is what truth. It is true that Jesus said "If your eye offends you, gouge it out." Does it mean it's truth to maim and dismember yourself if you miss the mark? If not, why? The same kinds of questions can be applied to bigger "truths" such as Heaven and Hell.

On the New Age site, I doubt we'd be discussing this topic; while the New Age has no dogma or creed, most who align themselves with what is know as New Age believe in a benevolent Deity. This includes a Deity not made in man's image or ego, which includes vengeance and punishment.

The question I asked about your beliefs and the relative strength of them regarding open discussion: why doesn't that warrant comment? If you are secure in your faith and your convictions, they why does it matter if theology and word origins are discussed? If someone asks a question on your board, are you saying the only ones welcome to comment had better be the one's that are fundamentalists or literalists?

Is not researching word origins, exegesis, theology and hermeneutics looking for "pure and honest" aspects of truth? Even Paul said to the Bereans "search out the scriptures to see if what I'm saying is correct." The "truth" of doctrine and demoninations are based on theologians interpreting "truth" as they see fit. Are you saying that their findings cannot be evaluated...or that one cannot think and research for themselves as to what the Bible means?

In my opinion, what is "pure and honest" are things aligned with the Holy Spirit--which includes love, mercy and compassion. (Things Jesus said are the important things...the "camels".) In your world view, hell and punishment somehow co-exists with love, peace, and compassion. That's fine. That doesn't mean, however, that those that disagree with you are not seeking honesty and truth as well, nor that their views aren't insightful, truthful, or helpful.

What a shame. I was so saddened by the last couple of posts as I found this discussion nourishing, albeit that there were different points of views and beliefs expressed, which I found to be healthy.

I am not seeking for someone to give me the answers, but rather seeking a greater understanding with the aid of others. I can find the answers that I need with the wonderful wealth of knowledge that is shared on this site along with my quuiet study. To this end, all points of views have been beneficial, even those that i do not agree with, because by acknowedging that I do not agree with them, it helps me to discover what i do agree with and believe.

I do not wish to get drawn into debates about the Bible. I look to find understanding of such issues that I want to try to understand. The issue of a place called hell and whether we can all make it to heaven is something that i want to understand. Is it enough to save my own soul in the knowledge that others will perish? How can one feel joy with such knowledge? How?

The question of whether we can all make it to heaven is a compassionate question, a cry of the human soul wanting it to be possible.

If indeed we are one body, how can part of the body end up in a place called hell when the other part goes to a place called heaven?

Please do not take any of these questions as an attack. This is not the intent.

Seek and yee shall find. I always remember this quote because if I do not ask then perhaps I will not find, if I do not knock then perhaps the door will not be opened. I may not be able to agree with any viewpoints provided. Yet with reflection and prayer the truths will come. In God's own time.

For the time being, are we not all one family regardless of our beliefs and religion? can we not all share our views, without them being seen as an attack, but moreso as a spiritual awakening, at least that is the case for me.

I can't thank you all enough for sharing your views. I have been so touched by this discussion and although I admit that I still have not quite gotten my head round it, I continue to read the Bible as I truly believe all the answers are found in the Bible.

I am but a child with very little knowledge of religion and each person that has shared their views has given me the ability to take a step further towards truth. Indeed, God does send angels to help you along the way. Thanks you sweet souls.

Lucy

Your Welcome Lucy....

Continuing ones journey is beautiful. I am honored that you stopped by here on your way to discovery.


Let me know how it goes OK?

I am not in a position to give advice. I don't consider myself to be an expert on much. I simply write what I feel and hope that anything I present may be helpful to others.

Go with God my friend.

ahhh Jenna, I believe everyone is in a position to give advice, based upon their beliefs and experiences. There is an opportunity to learn from all, without shutting the door on anyone.

Thank you for your kind words. Touched.

As a long-time seeker of Truth and a former New Ager, I only came to Christ a few years ago. There came a point in my searching when I had to figure out for myself whether or not Jesus Christ was telling the truth when he said he is God. If he was merely one of many "good teachers," then what did He teach, exactly? One thing he said was that he is God. I don't remember any of the other "good teachers"saying that(Bhudda,etc.).The true and complete gospel was never explained to me, but a "different gospel" was, a distorted and false one. I knew bits and pieces of the Bible, but not the whole story of why exactly Jesus died for me. I didn't want anybody dying for me! I did not understand what that was all about. I was more concerned with my opinion, if I agreed with the Bible, than with whatever the Truth might be. I was thinking of what seemed to be true to me; of what I thought should be true, according to what seemed fair to me. But the Bible says "God's ways are not man's ways" and that "there is a way that seems right to man, but that leads to death" (separation from God). The Bible plainly says in all translations that one cannot earn their way into Heaven: (being a good person doesn't get you into heaven)
Specifically, for example, 8Ephesians2:8-9 says:
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
We are saved by faith, but not by faith alone.
Many passages of the Bible also say that essential for salvation (going to heaven) is believing (having faith)that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for our sins and rose again. Satan believes that Jesus is God (it's in the Old Testament); is he going to heaven, according to the Bible? Further study of Scriptures showed me that other things are essential as well, in order to go to heaven. For example, the Bible says that "faith without works is dead." So, clearly faith alone is not enough. (Good)works alone are not enough, either, as shown above. And all of this is according to God; my opinion has nothing to do with objective Truth. Either something is true or it isn't; I don't get to pick my own truth, although that is precisely what I believed at the time. I believed in some kind of God, and so I just had to know if Jesus was telling the truth--is He really God?or a liar? or crazy? If He really is God, then what did that mean for me, personally, and all my "truths" that I had gathered over the years? I had to know if the Bible is the true, inerrant word of God. If it is the absolute Truth, then I need to do what it says to do because it is the plan of the God of the Universe, and I'm not God.I had thought that "the truth shall set you free" meant that since I knew my truth, I was, therefore, free. The complete quotation reads: "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." I wasn't free (forgiven, going to heaven), because I didn't really know the Truth.
What I learned is this:
The steps to forgiveness of sins and salvation are given all throughout the Bible, by examples of specific people, as well as by the words of God, Jesus and the Apostles in the Bible.
The steps are:
l. To hear and understand the gospel.
2. To believe in God, and believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior who died for sins of humanity and rose again. (took the rap for humanity)
3. Repent (turn away from) sins and dedicate my life to serving Jesus Christ.
4. Confess Jesus as Lord.
5. Be obedient to the commands of God.
6. Be baptised according to the Bible (in the proper way, for the proper reasons, the way God says is the proper way).
It's all there in the Bible; I just never put it together nor was I willing to value Truth above my own opinion, until it was spelled out to me. Each person has the free will to accept or to reject the Bible as the inerrant word of God. God is "not willing that any should perish" (that is not His will), but we do have that choice. Because God created us with free will--he doesn't want robots-- he wants us to come of our own volition to Him because He loves us so much. In my case, although I was well-versed in all the arguments against the truth of the Bible and the claims of Jesus, the more I read and studied, the more I saw that I had been deceived. "Satan can appear as an angel of light," the Bible says. And, "he is the father of lies," the Bible also says, many times.

For me this has been a long, arduous journey of questioning and doubt. Years. I was not willing to give up my own personal truths I had worked so hard for. In fact, truthfully, I set out to prove that the claim of Jesus were false.I am certainly no expert, but I have had a change of heart. Because I sought, I found; because I asked, I received; because I knocked, it was opened to me, just as the Bible says.
These are just a few things I have learned. There isn't room here to cite all the applicable Bible verses nor to go into a complete presentation of the gospel. But I sure wish someone had explained some of these things to me a long time ago, instead of my having to find out the hard way. Possibly my experience will help some other genuine seeker out there...
Blessings,
baka

Thank you for sharing baka. I know how you feel about having someone tell us about the truth of the gospel along time ago. What comes to mind for me tho, is whether I would have heard them then. I'm not sure I would have. And besides since it took God showing me directly in His Word that the Bible is truth, I doubt whether another person would have convinced me fully. I probably would have still doubted their word. For me it took God to open my heart and the Holy Spirit to open my eyes to discover the truth of Jesus' Words and the road to my salvation.

Remember, the sinful nature resides right below the surface so set your mind on the things of heavan and don't stray. There is no half and half.