BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Bible Basics Can We All Make It To Heaven?

Lisa,
I think thats the whole point of salvation.
Its when someone is humbled -either through an experience like the concentration camp or just a revelation caused by the Holy Spirit- and sees the error of his ways that he is 'saved.' However, he doesn't have to go and do good. It's the point of belief that makes the difference.

We would hope that someone like that would go on to make up for the harm he has done in the world but that isn't the requirement. If he dies at that instant, he still goes to heaven.

Lynne, as I said, you have to investigate the meaning of the Scriptures themselves. The original Bible was not written in English, as I'm sure you know. So it's important to investigate the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

I challenge you, or any Christian, to investigate further. My Mom is a staunch believer in hell, but despite me printing out lots of pages about the origins of the doctrine of hell, she refused to read it. Perhaps afraid that her faith might be shaken? Afraid to discover the truth? Regardless, individuals will only be ready to hear when they're ready to hear.

Here is an article about early Christians, the original language meanings of "eternity" and hell, and other information:

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Janet, I won't get into a long debate except to say that Many, Many Bible scholars disagree with you and do agree on a literal hell.

Well of course they do, Lynne! But they're usually working within the framework of certain presuppositions and going from there. If you start out believing that hell is literal and non-negotiable, any scholasticism is going to be to support that doctrine. (I majored in theology in a conservative Pentecostal college. I know how the game works...)

I don't wish to argue with you, either, but did you at least read the questions brought up in the last post? Most of those questions cannot be answered, I'd wager--especially when other Scriptures contradict the idea of a literal, fiery hell.

God is not love if he has made a place of eternal torment for humanity. This is one of the reasons I do not call myself a Christian: I do not agree with this "damnable heresy" which is so crucial to most Christian's theology.

If Christian's truly believed in a literal hell in their heart of hearts, then why, pray tell, aren't they banging on people's door most of the day trying to get people to repent? Is it that they don't care?

I think on some level the heart knows there is no literal fiery hell. I knew when I was a kid, despite my indoctrination, and I always heard God say to me "One day you'll understand Janet."

And one day I did. Hey, if a fear-based belief is something appealing to a person, more power to them. But the doctrine of hell has certainly not benefitted mankind, nor Christians. And if one were to say "Well, I've benefitted! I shun sin because I don't want to go to hell!" then I'd say "You mean to tell me your relationship to God--your spirituality is driven by fear?"

And if that is indeed the case, then I think that's sad. It's the same type of reasoning and lack of self-worth that draws women to abusive lovers over and over... And how sad to have God as the ultimate "abusive lover".

Just my take...

blimey ... will any of us ever really know the answer to hell's existance or do we have to until we have passed? ... I do not know.

I have driven myself nuts pondering this thought. Yet I have also asked myself, what difference does it make to my life? If hell does exist, do I try to live my life trying to gain access to heaven and avoid hell? and if hell does not then exist, how do I live my life?

In fact, should hell's existence or non existance impact on how I choose to live my life?

If I seek truth for this answer I know my life should be lived in a certain way, regardless of what the afterlife may hold.

Yet what I believe is that there is only God and all else is much like a painting on the artists canvas.

There were some great posts here that touched me. Very beautiful and compassionate.

I still pray that we all make it to heaven.

Lucy

Jesus said:

"The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age and the harvesters are angels.

As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

They will throw them into the fiery furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears let him hear."
Matt 13:37-43

If Jesus confirms that there is a place of continual weeping then I choose joy.
If Jesus confirms that not all will be counted righteous then I choose righteousness.
If Jesus confirms that all are invited but few are chosen then I will RSVP before it's too late.
If there is Heaven and Hell, then I choose Heaven.
If there is good and evil, then I choose good. If Jesus says it then I choose Him.

If Jesus confirms that there is a place of continual weeping then I choose joy.
If Jesus confirms that not all will be counted righteous then I choose righteousness. If Jesus confirms that all are invited but few are chosen then I will RSVP before it's too late.
If there is Heaven and Hell, then I choose Heaven.
If there is good and evil, then I choose good. If Jesus says it then I choose Him.

Very nice Jenna.

I was actually taught that hell wasn't a place of flames and pitchforks. I was taught that heaven was a place of great love, of belonging and being happy. Therefore in essence "Hell" was living in an absence of these things, so you were in comparison cold and lonely and wishing things had gone differently. The 'demons' that tormented you in hell were your own - your own jealousies and guilts and regrets that you went over and over in your mind about.

For example, one of Janet's quotes on Hell was

"If all things were made for GOD'S pleasure, is it conceivable that God would derive pleasure from seeing those He created endlessly tortured?"

But I don't think anyone has ever said that God is "pleased" by any of this. In fact I think it's said in many places that God is very SAD by all of this and really hopes that people will choose a path of love. But again the whole point of our world is that God gave us free will. He can't MAKE us choose love, he can't MAKE us choose to go with him. It's our OWN choice to turn our back on him! It's our own choice to dwell in a world of jealousy and hatred and envy. And therefore it is our own choice to end up alone, sad, away from his presence.

So I think on that point at least I disagree with the litany of anti-Hell comments <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If God could just "make us all permanently happy", so much for free will. We'd all be robots with smiles painted on our robotic faces.

But I don't think anyone has ever said that God is "pleased" by any of this. In fact I think it's said in many places that God is very SAD by all of this and really hopes that people will choose a path of love. But again the whole point of our world is that God gave us free will. He can't MAKE us choose love, he can't MAKE us choose to go with him. It's our OWN choice to turn our back on him! It's our own choice to dwell in a world of jealousy and hatred and envy. And therefore it is our own choice to end up alone, sad, away from his presence.

Your right Lisa. That is exactly it.


Thank you Lynn :love:

About the after-life, I'll share this story that happened to my family member before she died:

She said to me with joy: "Susan, you would not believe the places I've been!"

She had stopped breathing several times for long periods and then started breathing again and we thought during those periods of not breathing she had died - her body was still.

When someone tells me with sadness that their loved-one has died I share her experience with them as a comfort.

I take this as a comfort, too, that we are on a journey here on earth that does not end with our bodily death.

I can not say WHAT the experience beyond human life is, but it gives me so much joy to be loving and caring now, without having to wait to walk through a doorway into the beyond.

-Susan