BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Bible Basics Can We All Make It To Heaven?

This is a deep question for me, for the thought that a mere soul will find itself in a place called hell for eternity tears my heart apart.

I have had many discussion with people about this topic, yet I suppose I have not been able to accept what many believe.

Some will tell me there is only one way to heaven, based on one's belief, can this be true?

Can we all make it to heaven no matter what our beliefs are? whether we be muslim or Christian?

Lucy

Ooo good question and you're asking CAN we not WILL we. I have to believe that every person that is created as an innocent little creature must be given SOME chance to get to heaven. It would be an awfully unfair God that created children in situations where they had no possible chance of ever reaching Heaven and would be doomed to an eternity of anguish.

That was always my problem with the super-strict reading of original sin. It in essence said that a little baby who was born and then died before being baptised would go to Hell forever. It's not the baby's fault if say it had a genetic disease or the doctor made a mistake. Why should the baby suffer an eternity of torment as a result?

Isn't the point of God giving us free will that we each can *choose* good of evil and it is our *choice* that determines our fate?

I was fortunate that in a sermon from a Catholic priest when I was about 12 years old he said: Where is heaven? Then answered it himself with 'heaven is a state of mind' - that idea has stayed with me all my life.

I think that gives each of us the chance to make choices that preserve our peace of mind and through caring and loving allow us to feel the heavenly state of joy, even right now.

Oh boy, I'm not going to be very popular today. I can see it already....lol.


This maybe hard for anyone to hear. It was hard for me to hear as well. I don't know if you acknowledge the Bible as God's Word. I don't know if this is something you've heard before. For me, I recognized the Bible as authoritative scripture straight from God so it was easier. I'm not going to shove that acknowledgment down your throat. Thats something you have to find on your own.
However, you don't have to believe to check my source. It is in the New Testament Book of John Chapter 14 verse 6. Jesus says " I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." This is probably what you've been told and shown over the years. I know I was. I never fully understood untill I looked for myself.
What I found was (in a big nutshell) that God created man and woman in the garden. He gave them 2 rules. But other than that they were free. They CHOSE to be disobedient (as he knew they would). This is our free will and God's soveriegnty. We are the only creatures that have free will. The angels do not have it. I believe the ones closest to Him did at one time like lucifer. But he chose instead to be jealous of humans and NOT obey God by serving them; again, disobedience. When he fell from heaven, he took a third of the angels in heaven with him.
Look closely at Genesis 2 & 3. You'll see that what God had told Adam EXACTLY was not communicated to Eve clearly and she misquoted God. That in itself it the very essence of our troubles today. So many of us question what God says. We think "no way did he really mean THAT!". So we read into it and decide for ourselves thus changing what God says to fit our own desires and that's exactly what Satan wants us to do. To live in a state of confusion makes it very easy for him and his little friends to decieve us and keep us from the love God has for us.
God chose the Nation of Israel for His children through Abraham. He gave them the 10 Commandments through Moses. He gave them these laws to show them and us HOW we sin. Apparently we weren't that good at understanding God...lol... Moses then, in turn had to explain what all the payments and the sacrifices were for the people to become "clean" again and able to approach the "throne of heaven" which was the temple or alter. I can just see Moses now hunched over his parchment paper with a crowd saying "what if this?...what if that?..." and Moses having to come up with all kinds of answers for them. Look closely at the 10 Commandments...wouldn't our lives be simpler if we could keep them all the way God intended for us too? We would be perfect people. But unfortunatly we aren't. We are fallible just as we were created to be and we need God to lean on. We need His direction.
When the sins of the people got to be too great God sent a Savior, a Messiah who would "save" the people from themselves. The Jewish people back then got it all wrong and again misread what God was trying to say. They thought that He would send them a warrior who would relieve them from the oppression of the Romans. Not really God's style. He is more concerned with the nature of our soul than our flesh. Our flesh will die but our eternal spirit will go on. Just as our own children have consequences for wrong behaviour or choices we, too have consequences with God. As it was, ALL of us were going to hell if something drastic didn't happen. God loves us so much that He made a way. But He only made ONE way. He made the ultimate sacrifice on our behalf. He sent His Son here to earth to live as a man (which couldn't have been easy considering he was part of God as every son is part of his father) and then sent Him to die an awful death by being beaten and whipped untill the skin and muscles on His back were hanging in shreds. He had wooden spikes driven thru His wrists and His ankles; then HUNG UP FOR EVERYONE TO SEE! His mother had to watch her Son go thru this. His closest friends were powerless to do anything to stop it. During the time He hung there He took ALL OF THE SINS OF THE WORLD UPON HIS OWN SOUL! Yours mine and everyones. Hitlers and Mansons and everything vile that is in this world today. The man who had known none of this: no guilt no shame no addiction to porn no lust no hate no perversion, no murderous rage, no resentment, HE FELT IT ALL FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE AND THEN HE DIED FOR US. He took it and died in our place so that thru faith in Him and Him alone we could stand before the Father at the Great White Throne Judgement and be justified. Jesus is our filter before the Father. Without Him we will stand there naked and be judged according to our WORKS (or lack there of) ALL of our actions, thoughts, reactions, feelings, desires...everything will be put on the scale and we will be judged. Thats why there is only one way. God has shown us how to fight diseases like AIDS and Cancer, we have this great technology to share and talk to one another. Buisness's boom and industry grows, but we seem to be dense in the salvation of our very soul. Like a good Father God wants us all to come to the saving knowledge of His Son Jesus Christ. It is up to us what we will do with the information. Before you dismiss this post out of hand because of the content, check it out for yourself. Search yourself. If you had been in the Twin Towers or on that Airplane where would you have wanted to end up in that last split second? Before you ask me to PROVE what I say and what I believe let me ask you how do you know I'm wrong? Where's your proof that I'm wrong? We all need to ask these questions of ourselves...God knows our hearts...He made them and He can read them. What will He find in yours?

This is not an attack these are rehtorical questions and don't require an answer. I don't want to offend anyone but the questions were posed and I am committed to sharing what I KNOW as the truth...how do I know? Because God confirms it in MY HEART. No one will ever change that for me.+

Thank you all for sharing your views which I will never see as an attack but more so what they are, people's individual beliefs, or even those of their particular religion.

There are a number of issues that arise. I can relate to the statement about heaven being a state of mind, I think there is a wealth of truth in this.

I also acknowledge that it was Jesus that said that heaven can be found within. What does this mean?

jennarobinson, there is nothing wrong with what you say, it aligns with your truth and the truth of your religion, yet if that is the case, it would assume that someone that does not believe in Jesus would not make it to heaven. So what of everyone else? what of muslims, hindu's or buddists? ... Would a Christian be surpised if they were to enter heaven to find one of them there also?

When I read the Bible what echo's more than anythign in my soul, is that Jesus's teachings are not those that can be ignored, indeed there is a wealth of wisdom and truth. Yet is it enough to merely believe in Christ without living a Christlike life?

When Jesus says " I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." does that imply that Jesus's teachings are the onjly way? in other words the way that Jesus taught us how life should be lead?

When asked which of the commandments was the greatest jesus responds to say to Love your Lord God with all your heart mind and soul and love each other as you would yourself. Would this be enough to make it to heaven? for all? and are we also supposed to love oursleves?

Would someone like Hitler make it to heaven? even if he repented on his deathbed? and if we are to love our enemies, would any of us be happy to see hitler in heaven?

Many questions I know, yet they need to be asked to reached a greater understanding.

Lucy

Hi Lucy,

Those links I gave you on the other thread in the New Age Channel discuss the Greek meanings of "eternity", "hell", etc. (WhatTheHellIsHell.com et.al.) They also discuss how the theology of an eternal hell was non-existent in regards to the early church fathers. The concept of an eternal hell is a dogma (one of many) created by man to control man. Just like indulgences and "buying" your way to heaven, and so on.

I believe both hell and heaven are a state of mind, like Susan. Hell is separation from God, and if ego/fear keeps you from knowing Divinity, you are in an aspect of hell in direct proportion to the strength/size of your ego and fear.

FWIW...

I believe everyone can make it to Heaven. It's just a question of if we will.
God will make it clear to each individual Who He is and I think each individual will make the choice of either belief or disbelief.

If the early church fathers did not believe in an eternal hell, they would have been going against Jesus' teachings.
Matthew 25:46 (eternal punishment)
Matthew 5:22 (fire of hell)
I consider John an early church father.
In Revelation 1:17 he writes of Hades

I think Hell is a real place. I think all life is eternal and we will spend it in one of two places Heaven or Hell.

1. So what of everyone else? what of muslims, hindu's or buddists? ... Would a Christian be surpised if they were to enter heaven to find one of them there also?

2. Would someone like Hitler make it to heaven? even if he repented on his deathbed? and if we are to love our enemies, would any of us be happy to see hitler in heaven?


To Question #1:

The answer would be no. I would not be surprised. I am positive that God is bigger than my own little mind. I think His ways are beyond anything I could ever imagine. I could never be surprised by something God can do. Thats what I love about it. God can do ANYTHING!! "Nothing is impossible with God."

To Question #2:

This question reminds me of the theif on the cross next to Jesus. When he professed his belief in Jesus as the Son of God Jesus told him that he would be with Him THAT DAY in heaven. If Hitler had repented and declared his faith in Jesus on his deathbed, then I BELIEVE he would have gone to heaven. I believe this is how God works. He doesn't want to lose anyone. He has so much love for us that He would be overjoyed to recieve one such as Hitler into His arms because some one like Hitler had strayed so far away. Like the "Prodigal Son" parable. This parable is a description of how much the Father desires us to come to Him.

If I saw Hitler in heaven I would be overjoyed because it would mean that he had come to Christ and repented of his actions and been forgiven. If God could forgive one such as Hitler then how much more will He forgive me.

Yet is it enough to merely believe in Christ without living a Christlike life?

Oops... forgot this one...

Is it enough to merely believe?...hmmmm....I believe that when we "merely believe" we start a process called "sanctification" which changes us and our approach to life. We begin to go deeper and find that by believing Jesus was actually the chosen Messiah and that He is not only God but was man also, alters our heart and soothes our spirit.

"Belief" in Christ is enough then. But if there's no action on our part to BE different then we need to question "What" we believe about Christ. Is He truly our Savior? Or are we merely acknowledging he existed to try to get to heaven and avoid hell. Are we admitting that we are dead in our sins and without Him we are lost to eternal darkness, being separated from God forever!

Living a Christ-like life is a by-product of loving the LORD your GOD with your whole heart, mind and soul. Loving Him more than money, more than your family, more than your children, more than life.

Test your devotion....would you be willing to die for being a believer?

If our "belief" aligns with Gods and our lives are a living testament to His then yes believing is enough....

I would really hope that even someone as "bad" as Hitler COULD go to Heaven if he really and truly realized the error of his ways. The whole point of free will and of learning as we go is that we all make mistakes. The mistakes can be large or small ones. But if we really could believe that 'you could completely destroy your entire life permanently', that wouldn't be a world view that I would enjoy.

I'm not saying that someone who is afraid of Hell, the one second before dying can say "Oh no! I'm sorry for everything!" and it makes a difference. But let's say someone worked in a concentration camp for 4 years. But when they get out they are completely humbled by how bad they were and now they go out into the poorest areas of Thailand and dedicate their entire life to helping the poor, spending all their time, energy and resources and every waking hour on helping others.

Let's say the guard does these things NOT because "he wants to get into heaven" but because he truly and honestly wants to help people.

At the end of his life, is it really fair to say "You were bad for fours years and realized your mistake - but too bad"? Isn't the point of free will that we make mistakes along the way but they help us realize what the best path is?