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Joined: Apr 2002
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1 |
Can you keep a Christian attitude and live as a Christian without reading a Bible?
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Newbie
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Newbie
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Hi Lynn, As always, my chime in this rings in the direction that how would you know if you were living a Christian life without knowing who it is that you are living for? That being Christ Jesus. In my humble opinion,(which we all know isn't always humble <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) one cannot live according to Christian principals without experiencing the saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. And we can only know this by reading about His life and teachings in the Bible.....of course I remain open to the fact that there are those around the world who are not allowed to posses and own a Bible and they have been saved through the Godly teaching of someone who has learned from the Bible.... That's my 2 cents...
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Newbie
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That's such a difficult question as the Bible is the foundation of the Christian faith. What about unreached peoples? Those who have never received the good news from missionaries? I think God's grace extends to all ... and that there are thoughts/emotions/states of being that are beyond words... and maybe to some people who have never read the bible, or even know the word 'Jesus': maybe some of these people have experienced the essence of Jesus as he reveals himself to them. BUt, this is hard to discern since most of us are so blessed to live in countries with...hmmmm... internet :-) and churches and freedom... and we'll never know what it's like to be born, live, and die in a small village of the central Amazon, or the Steppes... just some thoughts.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Zebra
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Zebra
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,698 |
Of course. The NT talks about having the "law written on the heart". The letter kills but the spirit gives life. Reading or knowing the Bible doesn't gaurantee transformation or connection to God. Without the spirit of the word connecting to life within (the life of spirit), it's just dead words. (That are, unfortunately, often used to kill, condemn and destroy others. IOW, using the other end of that double edged sword on others, instead of allowing it to penetrate and cut away the flesh/Ego so that spirit/life can come forth.)
There have been many instances of people in other cultures or those who have not read the Bible, suddenly knowing Scriptures and the Universal truths therein as a result of having a spontaneous, direct encounter with the Divine.
It's all about a relationship and communion with the Divine, which can be experienced directly.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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OP
BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1 |
I believe that reading God's word "can" change a person's heart causing a spiritual transformation because God's word is living and active. But of course this is not always the case.
I believe one needs regular renewal through Bible reading and quiet time to stay on track. There are so many temptations in everyday life that it is easy to forget the truth or to be misdirected.
Yes, I think God makes Himself known to those who are not exposed to scripture. But when it is available, refusing scripture is turning away from His guidance.
Using "the double edged sword" to hurt people happens when someone is not living under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.Unfortunately, that happens in every belief system and lack of belief.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Newbie
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and maybe to some people who have never read the bible, or even know the word 'Jesus': maybe some of these people have experienced the essence of Jesus as he reveals himself to them.
My husbands family comes from a strong Cherokee background. His grandmother tells stories of the missionaries coming to the reservation when she was a young girl and offering them the path to the Lord through showing them the comparisons between their native religion and Christianity. I believe that Jesus draws those whom he desires to follow Him no matter what pagan background they may have had to begin with.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Zebra
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Zebra
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,698 |
But when it is available, refusing scripture is turning away from His guidance. This presupposes that the only way God communicates/guides humanity is through the written form of what is known as the Bible. Hebrews 8:10 talks about God putting the "law into the mind, write them on the heart." This is what the "New Covenant" is all about. Otherwise, it's just neo-Judaism, IMO. (IOW, salvation/life being contained within the words...not something beyond the words.) To think the Bible is the only way God speaks or guides is like reading a menu and thinking that's the same as experiencing the fullness of the meal. I think Jesus answered this very question quite eloquently in John 5:39-40: "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life". I believe one needs regular renewal through Bible reading and quiet time to stay on track. I disagree with this, as well. Reading scripture or even meditating on it doesn't guarantee "staying on track". (Whatever that means. I'd like to think I'm ever growing in God, as opposed to having to keep my vision/mind "narrow".) All throughout Romans, Paul speaks of the "law" and it's through the law that brings forth sin. The "law", or mere words, doesn't stop "sin". In fact, it increased it! Again, it comes back to a New Convenant, and in the New Covenant, a Relationship supersedes mere words and dogma. God's words (whether logos or rhema) are only living and transformational within the context of relationship and having our spirits quickened and awakened.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1
BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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OP
BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1 |
The "law", or mere words, doesn't stop "sin". In fact, it increased it!
The law never 'increased ' sin, it revealed sin!
God's law was not a mistake. It showed that we cannot be righteous without the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
Without scripture as a guide, the human mind can go off into all kinds of distractions.
Scripture is not the only way God speaks, He also uses our prayer time and our closeness to Him, but not to use scripture as a guide is to run the risk of finding yourself far away from God.
Like a ship that makes a very small mistake in direction at the beginning of a journey, without anything to make the correction, will end the journey far, far off course.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Zebra
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Zebra
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,698 |
The law never 'increased' sin, it revealed sin! Then obviously our understanding of Scripture is different. I Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. Romans 7:5-6 5 When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced sinful deeds, resulting in death. 6 But now we have been released from the law, for we died with Christ, and we are no longer captive to its power. Now we can really serve God, not in the old way by obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way, by the Spirit. (New Living Translation) Romans 7:8 8 But sin took advantage of this law and aroused all kinds of forbidden desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. (New Living Translation) There are many more verses along this vein. But not to use scripture as a guide is to run the risk of finding yourself far away from God. Like a ship that makes a very small mistake in direction at the beginning of a journey, without anything to make the correction, will end the journey far, far off course. Again, reading words will not change our flesh/ego. Not even meditating on them can, in and of itself. It's like putting make-up on a corpse and saying "See? It's alive!" You can't make flesh/ego "live". It's a darkened understanding, that views itself as separate from God and everyone else. The only people Jesus ever slammed were the Pharisees, and they kept the law "jot and tittle". They knew the Scripture inside out, and even tithed their spices. What did Jesus say about them? From Matthew 23 1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the Scriptures. 3 So practice and obey whatever they say to you, but don't follow their example. For they don't practice what they teach. 4 They crush you with impossible religious demands and never lift a finger to help ease the burden. 5 "Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, F126 and they wear extra long tassels on their robes. v 6 And how they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the most prominent seats in the synagogue!...
13 "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you won't let others enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and you won't go in yourselves. F129 14 F166 15 Yes, how terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn him into twice the son of hell as you yourselves are. 16 "Blind guides!...
Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income, F130 but you ignore the important things of the law � justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things. 24 Blind guides! You strain your water so you won't accidentally swallow a gnat; then you swallow a camel! 25 "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! You are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy � full of greed and self-indulgence! 26 Blind Pharisees! First wash the inside of the cup, and then the outside will become clean, too. 27 "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs � beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people's bones and all sorts of impurity. 28 You try to look like upright people outwardly, but inside your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness. 29 "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you build tombs for the prophets your ancestors killed and decorate the graves of the godly people your ancestors destroyed. 30 Then you say, 'We never would have joined them in killing the prophets.' 31 "In saying that, you are accusing yourselves of being the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead. Finish what they started. 33 Snakes! Sons of vipers!...
34 I will send you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. You will kill some by crucifixion and whip others in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city. 35 As a result, you will become guilty of murdering all the godly people from righteous Abel to Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered in the Temple between the altar and the sanctuary. 36 I assure you, all the accumulated judgment of the centuries will break upon the heads of this very generation. 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me. 38 And now look, your house is left to you, empty and desolate. I think that many within Christianity would do well to examine this portion from Matthew, for it speaks to the attitude/actions of many Christians. (Not all...but many. And this is why I think there are many who get turned off by Christians and Christianity: a whole lotta straining gnats and not a whole lotta love and mercy.) Heck, even Stalin could quote the whole New Testament! Again, words without Relationship=death. "The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." That seems pretty self-explanatory to me. The Kingdom of God is within. This is what Jesus said, and I guess it's good enough for me, too. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1
BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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OP
BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1 |
I'm on my way to work this morning and don't have time to answer your long post.
To visitors here.
I hope that you will look into the Christian faith for yourself. Ultimately it's your heart, where the change is made (if you are willing) and then no one will be able to mislead you.
PS.. I printed your post (( 3 pages!)) Hopefully I will have a few minutes between clients today to deal with it.
"By means of shrewd lies, unremittingly repeated, it is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell -- and hell heaven. The greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed. " Adolph Hitler
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