If you're living close the edge financially, should you be a good tipper? Should you tip at all?

Do you tip your hairdresser a few bucks, or a percent of the treatment cost, or nothing at all? Do you feel like the waitstaff hates you at your local pub?

Ethical comments? Rants?

This can be a touchy issue. I'd really like to know what people's opinions are. Remember, no one is right or wrong! No judging!

As a former server, if I knew that someone wanted to tip better but could not afford to do so, a smile and thank you were more than sufficient!

I'm glad you brought this subject to light because sometimes servers forget that customers have their own financial challenges. Not all are rich. And everyone deserves to be able to dine out.

Tell you what would make me smile is a short note from the customer saying, "I'm sorry I can't tip you better but thanks for great service! :)"

When I've been caught short of cash for a tip jar, I always apologize to the server and offer instead a blessing. "I'm so sorry that I don't have cash but you will be blessed for your kindness!" And the person always smiles. Often, they reply, "Oh, that is even better than money!" One guy said, "Oh, I believe in that. I can always use blessings!"

And I make good on my promise. As I depart, I always say a thankfulness blessing for the person, asking God/Universe/Source to pour out blessings of love, joy, health, abundance and riches upon this very kind, hard-working person. May he be rewarded for all his goodness and know how much he is appreciated by customers...that he makes this world a better place!

This is a tough subject. If one can afford it, the cost of the tip should be included when even thinking about going out, and picking out where to go.
But that isn't what this thread is about. When I lived in Oregon, there was a restaurant tax that was proposed - it failed after surveys showed that the largest demographic groups of people who eat out a lot are the poor, and those who are workaholic types. Talk about unrepresentative!
So I guess it is important when your poor to leave what you can, be kind to the waitstaff, be polite and considerate of taking up space when they may be getting busy (don't take a booth up for yourself and only order coffee and an appetizer during dinner time), and consider leaving nice notes, blessings and other kind thoughts for your hard working server - who may very well be as poor as you.

Oh my gosh, Jilly. This is a tough one. I was going to write what Lori did.

I think a little note of thanks, praise and light apology could sometimes be just as much appreciated as a tip. Maybe have some notes made up ahead of time, with a little flower or butterfly sticker on it would be a good idea to keep handy.

Here's MHO.
I rarely eat out, but when I do I figure the tip into the cost of the meal before opening the door. After all, most waitstaff are not paid a big wage and tips are assumed to make up the rest of their salary. If I were to give a tiny tip, or stiff the server entirely, I would be stealing their service. Would you really want someone to do that to you? It's another matter if someone helps you out as a friendly gesture and a verbal "Thanks a lot!" is all that is expected, but by going into the restaurant you are hiring the server to wait on you and should pay him/her the value of that service.

Right on, Claybird!

My mother worked in restaurants when I was a child. If I can't afford to eat what I want and leave a tip, I order something that costs less. The only time when I would not leave a tip would be when the service was completely bad or the server was rude.

another thought for the poor who need to eat out - go to the types of places where tipping is not expected, such as many of the chain fast food places, or grocery store delis. Sit -down restaurants with service may just be out of budget for some.

Don't get me wrong: I am a very generous tipper. I think all former servers are. The only time I don't tip well is if I use my debit card at a counter service/take out place, and they only accept cash tips. I rarely keep cash on me. I usually go out of my way to an ATM to get tip money but sometimes, it just isn't possible.At a sit-down place, they accept credit/debit card tips so no problem.

But back to the original point: Yes, I as a customer consider the tip as part of the overall cost of a meal, not an option. But as a server, I guess I felt for those who couldn't tip me well. I just let it go.

I think I am hearing Claybird, Connie and AKlisa say that if you can't afford to tip well, you shouldn't go to nice sit down places?

I jut wanted to confirm, please!

I am not completely saying that. There is a certain portion of society that is poor and eats out frequently, such as some college students and certain working class poor groups, that will NEED to eat out and won't really be able to pay a 15-20% tip.
Restaurants located in areas that they are frequented by these groups know who they are. These groups shouldn't be held to the same tipping standard as the rest of us.
There was a restaurant in Eugene, Or that had an all you can eat spaghetti night once a week for $3. They brought in a ton of people, including college students who couldn't leave a tip equal to the service they received (the percentage worked out in this rare case.)
The study in Oregon that stopped the restaurant tax showed this pretty clearly. I tried to find it so I could post it here, but I didn't see it anywhere.
For other folks, for whom eating out is a choice and a luxury, we should tip reasonably well. Even if we are poor, we are often able to come up with a stable eating plan and food storage in our homes.
If someone falls into the poor eating out group, then it would be best to take Phyllis' and the other suggestion to leave kind thoughts and a blessing.

I truly hope I do not upset the apple cart here, Jilly. I believe, as I said, that leaving a pleasant note of gratitude and kind thoughts is a nice gesture if one cannot afford a tip.

Personally, I have never believed that tipping should ever be expected. Tipping, originally, was done as a gesture of thanks for good food, good service, and a pleasurable time. It was a form of reward and thanks.

Service people, like waiters and waitresses, are hired to do a specific service and (forgive me if I upset anyone) should not expect a tip. I agree it is nice to tip, but it should not be expected.

Everyone, poor or not, deserves to treat themselves to a special evening or other entertainment once in a while and should not have to tip at all. A very pleasant "thank you" and praise is the proper thing to do if one is pleased with the food and service yet cannot afford a tip.

I raised my kids on my own and had to make many long road trips over the years with my two little ones. Sometimes, I only had enough money for gas for the car and to stop and eat when we got hungry. I could not afford to give money (that my kids needed for nourishment and possible emergencies) as a tip to anyone.

I have had service jobs, including waitress, and never expected a tip. When I did get a tip it was very much appreciated, but never expected or demanded.

I think the rules and expectations should be changed and that the management of the establishment should be responsible for tipping the employees of said establishment. Any thoughts on that?

These are excellent comments! I am keeping my opinionated opinions out of this for now, as I love this discussion and don't want to take it over.

What about tipping non-restaurant wait staff? Haircutters, hair colorists, pedicurists, pizza delivery boys and bartenders?

Non-restaurant staff - I think it is more culturally acceptable to not tip. I think all of the salons where I live are full-service -there is no ten dollar pro haircut. I think they start out at $28. The cost of haircuts here is part of why I learned home haircutting. hairdressers here are well paid, and do not rely on tips to make up part of their income. Tips really are a complement to a hair stylist. Many poor people don't know how to cut their own hair.
I think bartender service would be more of a luxury for anyone. At least around here it is easy to get someone to buy you a drink if you can't afford one, and they pick up the tip. So even the poor can get a drink out once in awhile. That is local culture, I am curious what others have to say.
Pizza delivery service is service dependent. I once had a pizza delivery person show up drunk, she barged into my apartment, knocked stuff over, and scared the daylights out of me. then my neighbor came over and said that she had first barged into my neighbors place without knocking. No tip, and a few phone calls to her employer and the police were made. Locally, delivery drivers are paid above minimum wage, and are not dependent on tips.
Locally, bar tending and restaurant waitstaff rely on tips to make a livable (or even better wage). The other services like them, but aren't reliant on them. Being poor can change the tipping rules at restaurants, but good service is what drives a tip for anyone in the other services.
Curious to hear what others have to say - I do believe that it could be very different in other regions of the country, and especially throughout the world.

and as for Phyllis' suggestion - management tipping out or coming up with service/customer increase bonuses could be a much more socially equitable way to level out the pay issue of service oriented jobs. I like the concept!

Whether it is for a sit-down restaurant or the hairdresser, I either plan to tip or I just don't go at all if I can't swing it. A lot of people in the service industry make ends meet by their tips. Often their base pay is not all that much, and they work hard like everyone else to make a living.

I can see this is somewhat of a sensitive issue. I lean on the 'not my job to tip someone' side. I see a tip as a bonus for good service, not an entitlement.

I think I like Phyllis' idea to have management pay people their own servers' tipping wage. It's not my job to support servers. No one tips me for my work, and i actually went to college for it. I've never made more than 10k in a year, so i have no sympathy for service professions. I struggle, they struggle; it's all choices.

It's not a comes around, goes around thing for me, since no one tips me and i live far below the poverty line. I also can't ever pay my student loans - college was an utter waste for me financially (intellectually is another story).

I think for me it came to a head when i was working as a bartender. I'd pour a beer and get a dollar. I'd pour another beer and get a dollar. WOW, i thought, what craziness is this? Why did i even bother going to school? I could get rich just pouring beer, without needing a lick of education. I'd come home with $70 cash in my pockets for less work than anything else i'd done.

Since I am not motivated by money i don't tend any more bars, but really, it's a GREAT way to get cash for unschooled efforts.

And if you are someone who is good with people, (I am not) I feel the same way about waiting tables.

I don't know the deal with hairdressers. I don't want to tip them as i think haircoloring and cutting is hugely overpriced, but i feel massively guilty if I don't. Yet i know a friend who just blessedly doesn't tip hairdressers. I'd love to not care if they hate me and be like that.

For me, tipping is entirely about guilt and I hate being in that position.

Having worked at a payroll company for 13 years, prior to my current job - though each state has different laws, there are minimum wage tip laws that allow restaurants to pay a couple of dollars below minimum wage, because the tips will bring them up to the federal minimum wage, but I to find it very difficult to tip for bad service.

I don't tip for bad service and I don't tip out of guilt. I tip because I want to, and if I can't do that for great service then I will stay home until I can afford to do it. It may just be a social rule at this point to tip in certain circumstances, and maybe it is optional, but I like doing it when I feel that I have been treated well.

At this point in my life I can't afford luxuries anyway, so the issue of tipping almost never comes into play for me right now. I eat in most of the time, and I am not getting my hair done nearly as much as I would like to. It is what it is.

I get a little crazy when i start talking about tips, and i really need to ask myself why. It's a distinct stressor for me and i spend a disproportionate amount of time fretting over tips.

It's a real pet peeve of mine. I won't let porters carry my bags at a hotel or a car shuttle because I don't want to tip them ( i can carry my own darn bags). I want to cut my hair at home so i don't have to tip them. I don't want to eat out so i don't have to deal with the stress of tipping.

Not that I can afford hotels, shuttles, hairdressers or eating out. But in theory.

My one touchy spot is going to a bar. I like bars. I buy the cheapest possible beverage and start a tab so i don't have to tip after every beer. I can just leave a dollar or two when i leave. I found a bar that has a $1.50 tap beer and I try to keep my entire evening around $5.50. That's three beers and a buck tip. Big spender! :p

Now I've done it. I've killed the conversation. This is why I was trying to keep myself out of it.

Okay, so let's set aside some suggestions if someone is poor and can't really tip.

1. Plan ahead when you go out to tip if you can, otherwise leave a nice note.
2. Learn to cut and color your own hair if you don't like to tip
3. Eat at non-sit down places where tips are not expected.

What do you guys think?

Hello all,

I think that if you are out and about and spending money on anything that provides a service and that service was what you went out to get and you enjoy or benefit from the service, then you have 10% that can be factored into the spend.

The person serving you may not be earning a set salary and may be working for tips only (a lot of that goes on here in SA).

One thought that has always bugged me though is this:

If I go out for a cup of coffee say with a friend, then the waitress brings two cups - the tip being 10% of the bill may be say R2,50 (for a R25,00 bill).

Now if we add a toasted sandwich (or something) to that for each of us, then the waitress still only goes to the kitchen once, serves us once, but because the bill is now say around R70,00 including the coffees, then by default the tip is R7,00 for essentially the same effort. The cook or the person washing up gets nowt!

This is not logical for me though I wish it were. But, I come back to my initial point - if I can afford to go out and have a whatever, then I can afford to tip accordingly. I do not think that defining yourself as a 'poor' person lets you off tipping for the right service. If you are or a person is too poor to spend, then they are too poor to tip and of course they won't need to.

As a student I put myself through two years worth of university books by working for tips only. That is probably why I think what I do!

Cheers now

I agree that service people, especially in restaurants and bars, may be working for tips only because they are earning minimum wage (sometimes less), but I did not hire them, the establishment did. And the manager of the establishment, at close of shift, could calculate tips (bonus) for each person by looking at the checks to see the amount each server brought in.

The cooks, bus persons, dish washers, should get a percentage of each servers bonus.

I do not recall when, where, and why this 10% rule/demand began, but I think it is not right that a customer should be responsible for tipping. I pay for a product -- I do not pay wages.

I know what you mean, Phyllis. When my aunt moved into assisted living and we had her house refurbished, did you know that we were expected to tip the movers, the house painters, the flooring guys and the yard workers (who worked for the landscaper) plus provide lunch? Yes, I heard them talking about it. We did not tip them daily, as they apparently expected, but at the end of the job. And it got quite pricey.

Here where we live in CA, the "standard" tips were reported in the paper (and online) to be 20-25% *and more* for good service.

Tipping has gotten out of hand. Business owners pay minimum wage and no benefits so servers rely on tips to make it. I say that we need to lobby for living wages, but the added expenses put the pinch on business owners who go out of business or charge higher menu prices. Customers end up ponying up the dough in one way or another.

If customers stop frequenting dining establishments because they can't tip appropriately, servers will lose their jobs in the end anyway when the restaurant loses business.

Have you noticed that when you get your car repaired (if you have one) the bill itemizes the cost of the materials and adds in the cost of the service. If you don't have enough money, can you just pay for the materials and simply thank the grunts that did the work? Its not exactly the same I know, but I do feel that by walking into a sit-down restaurant I have implicitly agreed to add the cost of service on to the cost of the meal.
And yes, I make far below minimum wage myself, and hardly ever go to a restaurant or a bar and always cut my own hair so I don't find myself having to tip often, but when I do it seems only fair to add it in.

That is true, Claybird. Yet a mechanic shop does not expect tips due to their exorbitant costs and their type of service.

Lori, I have never in my life heard of painters, movers, yard maintenance people getting, much less expecting, tips. I think that is outrageous. Lunch maybe is ok -- my brother and I once bought lunch for some guys we hired as movers.

It seems there are all kinds of thoughts on this subject and it is very interesting to read them all.

What about tithing (used to be 10%) -- is that the same as tipping?

At restaurants I look at the bill and see the tax.
I multiply the tax times 2 and leave that amount as a tip. My niece is a server and she turned me on to that method. Works here in Prescott, AZ!

Hello All,

I cannot confirm this at all but 'we heard' that tipping started in France in general and was an acronym for To Insure Prompt Service.

I do remember quite graphically that on an after schooling overseas holiday I was given by my parents, when the tour went to Paris, the French restaurant staff and movie house ushers and dustbin guys aggressively 'screamed' teep ... teep...' and just refused to do anything unless you paid up front. Of course it wasn't a set 10% of anything (10% used as a standard here in SA) as generally there was no bill attached to the action. BUT unles a person paid up a person got nowhere!

I think it was just the idea and not specifically the amount. The idea meaning "You see, you cannot do it unless I do it..." I am not sure of that either in many instances, but you know what I mean as I hope I have articulated the thought well enough.

I do not know though about tipping starting in France, but I/we were caught in this situation, spending our precious 'student' foreign exchnge if we wanted nearly anything. And then there were all the govt. taxes charged for various things in the hotels we stayed in like bed tax and tourist tax and other...on top of tipping the restaurant staff.

There too I remember that the bill came 'pre-tipped' by management. I remember too that one of our party refused this and really caused a nonsense in the dining room when she told them to amend the bill accordingly. In instance she just did not think the service had been good at all.

Here in SA too, rather than or even not the same as tipping at all is the labour charge levied by trades people (plumbers, electricians) and motor repair mechanics etc etc and so on. Here labour charges are (or can be) anything from R380 to R795 per hour. An account for a car service would therefore include materials, labour charges and VAT (value added tax - govt charged currently at 14%)

You are right, reading all the thoughts on this subject is very interesting,

Cheers now

Pre-tipping is really annoying. I've been to places that I didn't realize i'd tipped - and left another tip. When I got home I looked at the receipt and realized that meant I double tipped. The few times that has happened, I was infuriated. They don't tell you when you leave that second tip that you've already tipped.

Peeved!

I actually tried to overtip the other night at my local pub bc i felt bad for my chronic undertipping. they know I am hard up and would not let me. That's actually really nice of them.

Lestie, when my mom was a server, she took a percentage of her tips to give to her bus boy, her toast girl, the maitre'd, and the kitchen staff. That was the way that it was in the world of high class restaurants.

A few comments:

First, if you can't afford the price/cost of something, you do without.

I live in a state, one of several that allows wait staff to be paid under ordinary minimum wage based on the idea that tips will bring servers' pay up to the minimum or above.

Laid on line: The minimum wage in NJ is $7.25 an hour. For "Tipped employees" the minimum is $2.13 - over 2/3 of a "tipped" pay is expected to come from tips.

I wanted to say to Lori that you are the first server I have ever come across who states that you would be happy with a thank-you and a smile.

I guess you don't work in a "tipped employees" state?

As to the old wheeze "To Insure Prompt Service":

If you were going to "insure" prompt service, that means the restaurtant would pay you if service was not propmpt. This would be the Insurance pay-off.

So really, the concept would be tEpping a server - one wants to ensure prompt service. The big question is, how can you ensure prompt service if you don't pay to ensure it until after the service is completed? If you wanted to ensure prompt service, you'd give the server a sawbuck upon arrival.

Finally, since they don't tip in France, it seems unlikely the practice started there.

In the U.S., standard restaurant tip is 15%. Knock off the last digit and add half of that amount to that amount. (These days, although it burns me, it is considered proper to include tax in calculating tip).

One tips on the amount, that's just how it is. There has to be some method for calculating tips. We simply can't estimate the labor differential involved in every meal. Do you really want to remember to pay extra because you dropped your fork and thus made more work for the serveer?

Things have changed for me. I am no longer a bottom rung wage earner. I'm not upper-middle class, but I do alright for myself. I've also become lazier and therefore, I eat out very often.

I hardly ever get poor service. Barely ever. Can't remember any instance off the top of my head. Mostly it is ordinary, adequate service and I give an ordinary, adequate tip. So you had to ask twice for a second glass of water. Even giving a 10% tip is a 33% reduction in pay to server. Pretty stiff hit for being late with a glass of water..

For those who can't seem to bring along money to pay the tip, try asking management if you can't put tip on the card. There really should be no reason you can't. They are accepting the card for payment.

How about if you didn't have the card and you couldn't get to ATM for cash to pay for meal - would you still go out? If you don't have enopugh money, you don't have enough money.

When I did make barely above the minimum, I was already involved with cooking and wine as a hobby. You better believe I didn't want to buy the cheapest entree, the crappiest bottle of wine.

I lusted after fine food and drink.

But I couldn't afford it.

Even today - I would love to drink DRC Burgundies, not all the time, not once a year, how about once - too bad for me, I can't afford it.

Frank, thank you for your really thoughtful comments. I can see this issue is important to you.

Lori lives in So Cal where I lived when i served. I always could rely on minimum wage if i didn't get tips, so i know that at least i was being paid the same as people working retail or many low wage service jobs.

In a state where there was no min wage for servers i'd work somewhere else. You don't HAVE to work as a server.

I live in So. Cal as Jilly said. Now I see that I am the oddball. I guess I'm just plain weird but I believe that good feelings are worth far more than money. One very rude customer really tested my patience then didn't tip. I smiled anyway, and he offered me a job at his hotel restaurant right there on the spot. I politely declined. If his behavior was a clue to how he would be as a boss, I wanted none of it! Even if he was just testing me. It was a better restaurant and tips would have been better but daily environment is more important.

I was a server who served happily because I loved my job and loved people, too. Funny, people tipped me generously all the time. Sometimes, more than 100 percent of the tab!

Frank.....I agree. If you don't have the money, then don't go to places or otherwise do what you can't afford. I believe in tipping for good service, for the attentiveness of the server, for the attitude and professionalism, etc. I know people that tip 20% for good service. Servers really appreciate it, and I think they deserve it if they have done a very good job. Most don't bring home a decent pay without their tips.

I very rarely eat at a place where I need to leave a tip. I feel a tip should be something left for service above and beyond. I don't feel it should be mandatory. But when the server isn't making min. wage then the employer has shifted his responsibility to me the customer and I don't like that. So I rarely go to restaurants.

"I feel a tip should be something left for service above and beyond"

This may be your feeling, but if you live in the U.S., you are mistaken.

In the U.S. tipping a restaurant server for ordinary service is a given. It is how things are done. It is the accepted social convention.

Sez who, you ask. The society you live in sez. With the internet, one doesn't even have to wait for a response from Dear Abby to find the answer to this question.

When I'm hot and tired, I might feel I have just as much right to my bus seat as the elderly person who just boarded (more in fact since I am sitting down, it's my seat), but social convention, that is to say accepted behavior in the society in which I live, mandates that I offer my seat to that person. This is not the rule in all societies, but it is in 20th century U.S.

If you want to be an iconoclast, feel free - but do it at your own expense, not another's.

(Of course I don't mean "you" personally - anyone who believes tipping is only for performance 'above and beyond' is incorrect.)

I was at another website where folks were discussing 'How do you define gourmet?'. Prevalent among responses was the phrase "By my definition". What?

I'm sorry, we don't each get our own definition of a word.

This is and should be more strictly applied than social conventions, but the principle is the same. What we "feel" something "should be" doesn't have any bearing on what that something is.

I always tip at restaurants where there are servers, unless the service was utterly horrendous, which does not happen very often.

Same here.

I have to side with Vintage - who, as you notice, says she doesn't go to tipping-type places then. Tipping just bothers me. Businesses should shoulder the burden of paying their employees - i don't know why i have to do it. I tip, as i mentioned above, out of guilt and shame, which are not lovely accompaniments to food.

Since you can legally leave a place without tipping, it is not mandatory. It is accepted practice in the US, but still absolutely a choice. You aren't stealing if you don't tip up.

IMO. It's an internal matter of how you feel about it. And someone can always get a minimum wage job elsewhere if they are in a Tipping State.

I guess I should simply make sure i only go out to places like counters, drive throughs and cafeterias if i don't want to tip.

This is a very interesting discussion, regardless of how people see it.

It is indeed an interesting topic, Jilly.

I don't tip out of guilt, but only because I want to and I think the server deserves it. I am not tipping the restaurant. If I don't have the money to tip I either go to a take out place or other restaurant where there are no servers at the tables, or I just don't go out at all.

Pulling from the comments here...

Ideas for people where tipping is an expense they don't like or can't afford:

-Order Take Out
-Use counter places, food courts, drive throughs, cafeterias, vending machines, food from cart/truck vendors (at job sites, malls, street corners)
-get pizza from the store so they don't have to send out a driver
-make your own food
-have potlucks, or those house to house dinners
-eat before going out with friends, and just get a water so you can enjoy the company but not feel forced to spend money
-Go to buffets, make sure not to order drinks from servers, and bus your own table
-Eat free happy hour snacks so you only have to tip for the bar drinks
-eat food samples at groceries and Costco when they have those stations at the end caps and by the deli/bakery

What am i missing? Do you think any of these are ridiculous ideas?

-eat food samples at groceries and Costco when they have those stations at the end caps and by the deli/bakery

OMGosh, Jilly... I do this every time I go to Costco and it saves me from having to stop and eat somewhere on the way home. Good idea!

Other thoughts I have. Because I cannot afford to tip others for the job they are supposed to do anyway.... I just do not go out to a sit-down meal anymore.

I still think food servers should earn more money and have the employer pay a bonus to them. in place of a tip, based on how many customers they served and how much money was brought in by that.

In an ideal world restaurants would pay their employees more money and there would be no reason to tip, except that I believe that some people who can afford it would still like to do so. Restaurants are in business to make money, so they won't ever be doing this, even though they charge a good price for a plate of food.

@Phyllis, I love those free samples. You get snack, fruit, appetizers, meat, side dishes, drinks and desserts. It's like a full meal of many little servings. Free food is fun. You've paid for the membership anyway, so why not indulge on your way home?

@Debbie, what do you think of my list a few posts ago about places to eat for non-tippers?

I like your list, Jilly. You always have great ideas.

I've been to a couple of places over the years that have included their own tip in the bill and didn't tell me. And then I went and tipped them on top of the tip and STILL they didn't tell me.

I think that is about as annoying as it gets.

Have you ever double tipped by accident?

I have not double tipped, but I do take offense at restaurants that put their own gratuity on the bill. That is presumptious and rude, and not restaurants that I would frequent again. Restaurants make a profit just on the food as it is. The person being served should have the call on how much to tip or whether to tip at all, depending on the service.

It's funny, the free samples idea. I went to my local grocer yesterday and I was also hungry. I looked around and had a tiny three course meal for free - there were free samples of some chicken salad at the deli, free cantalope in the produce section, and free pineapple upside down cake in the bakery area. I probably could have tasted some deli cheeses/meats but wasn't up to asking.

That's neat, Jilly. When my boyfriend and I used to go to the grocery store, especially to Sam's Club, he'd always check out the free samples. I never had the urge to do that.

Jilly, so true... Some stores such as Sam's, Wegmans even Target have the freebie food sample tables. You only have to listen to a 2 second talk about what it is, where it is in the store, would you like a coupon and there you go.

I was starved when I went into a super target a couple of weeks ago and the sample ladies were out. They let me sample each flavor of tea and there was a delicious ham and cheese on some sort of cracker. It was so good and filling!

Hello all and Connie,

That is nice especially when there is a team that works together, but more often than not there is just a them and us situation, we in front and you in the back supporting us in the front.

Here is SA things are changing and have changed for many reasons, but there was a time when identifying an employee of the month for singling out for an extra bonus and accolade or certificate etc was a very unusual concept amongst the 'black' cultures.

After all, how can I get the prize for unloading the sacks off the truck? There would be no truck there but for the driver, or the people who grew what was in the sacks, or made the sacks or packed the sacks or or or and so on. In many rural places here in SA the employee of the month can only work in teams. Hope these few words put across the point I am wanting to make and it does make a lot of sense. No man is an island!

Back to tipping, I wonder when tipping becomes bribing? Has anyone thought about that connection - given that there is one? Do we have an ETHICS forum?

Cheers now

Lestie, you brought up some extremely valid points which are part of the reason we North americans need to take a good hard look at the tipping issue. The wonderful melange of cultures and various socioeconomic situations we have limit that way we pay tipping situations into such an odd mess that needs to be changed.

It might well be a form of bribing. More of a 'greasing the wheels' kind of bribery, one that is socially accepted and expected.

I am spending some time at a used bookstore coffeeshop. I am not tipping. I've been buying some teas and pastries now and then to justify my table, and even a few used books, but I really don't think I should tip someone when I stand at a counter and they hand me something.

Right? Wrong?

Right, Jilly. No tipping needed when you stand at a counter to order and pick up your food. Buying something while in an establishment like that is compensation enough.

One thing some of you seem to not know is that the server usually has to pay taxes on a percentage of their receipts, it used to be 8%. So whether you tip or not, the government assumes that they made 8% of the sale price as a tip and they must pay taxes on it even if you gave them nothing. So they can actually end up having to pay to serve you if you're a habitual non tipper.

except no one tips only 8%...

Whether I can afford it or not, I have always felt it is so unfair paying someone based on them receiving tips.

Now at age 54, I can remember in my 20's getting good tips - so the $2 and some change I was getting hourly was not a big deal.

Being the chatterbox I am these days, I run across people who are being paid so little and with the recession little or no tips. Times are hard indeed.

There needs to be some law in place to protect these workers.

*** I hate going to places where a tip is expected - sorry this should be something I decide upon = I try to avoid these places ***

Great question and responses...

I agree. In fact, when the tip in included, it is their loss because I always tip extremely generously. More than they tack on. If the tab is inexpensive, I don't tip the usual 20-25% because it would be too little.

I tip people who don't need to be tipped just to see them smile.

And it's not like I am wealthy because I have 0 in my bank account at this time. If I have it, I give it. If I don't, I can't so I don't.

Lori, you are so generous.

I tend to be really miserly.

I am taking the advice of people in this thread and not eating places where I am waited on. But I did have a dilemma the other night. I went to a chinese buffet and did not take any soup or drinks or anything from the wait staff. I didn't see a need to make them work much, since I wasn't going to leave a tip.

At the last minute I rounded up the bill, but I still felt like I was guilted into it. I didn't have the guts to stick to my guns.

I have a new tactic. I take out my phone and use the calculator to determine exactly 15% for a tip. That way no one can really complain. What do you guys think?

To Jilly,

First if someone can afford going to a restaurant,she/he is not poor.
Second where I live we have a 15% tax added to our bill ,before the tipping.Federal 7% Provincial 8%.
So you take the special of the day $7.50 plus 15 % fed/prov taxes and then you tip the girl.So we are up close to $9. so we give a dollar.The Richer people give 2$ .This is for a noon Special 10 dollars.Imagine "a la Carte"

The other day I took 3 slices of french toast bread.$7.77 before tax before tip.That is not cheap.On our main street we have regular coffee going to 2.25$,thats regular plus 15 % tax plus tip no refils.

The average salaries here are from 10 to 12$.Try buying a house?

loong

It is true that someone eating out isn't completely poor. No one HAS to eat out to live. It is a luxury.

Loong, 15% is a lot, plus tip. At least you have health care and education from that, though? In the US we pay around 10% and lack those services.

Finally I see people who can see that eating at restaurants means that you are not poor! I am so tired of people giving the excuse that it is cheap for when they eat fast food and give fast food to their kids. Eating out cost a lot of money. Tonight my parents had a few dollars so they bought fries at a little restaurant here and the cost was 4$ for three people so imagine if they would of got something else with these fries! I lost my job in July of 2009 and that same day my dad retired (i was working for him) and my mom too was working for him so we all lost our jobs on the same day. I still haven't found a job and my parents only have their retirement checks (this july my dad finally receive his big check so he has 2 by months but they dont amount to a lot...my mom was a housewife all her life so she has a very small check and she will maybe have a little more in march of this year). I am still living with them since I have no job and with the little amount I receive per months I could rent an appartment but only 100$ or less would be left for every months. After I pay the internet (im the only 1 who uses it), my cell phone, the satellite (my dad only listens to french channels and there are more in english), my pills and waxing once a month (its the only place i refused to cut [in half...i had to stop waxing for my tighs, belly and bikini...i think ill have to stop the rest soon]) there's not a lot left so no restaurants for me. And after my parents are done paying the other bills (thankfully they bought the house and paid it fully after we sold our old house BUT they did too many renovations so they had to take a loan then another 1...they always have done things like that and thankfully [and dont know how...i learned all by myself i guess] i never did stupid things with my money) there's not a lot left for food and gas so when we go out we plan ahead and make sure we run all our errands and have our appointments at the same time and we rarely get to eat restaurant foods. We actually can manage to eat without going hungry but it takes planning and looking carefully at the prices and the quantity when we buy our food. It is doable but it takes efforts and this is something not a lot of people want to do!