BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Atheist Random Thoughts

I read somewhere that all atheists and agnostics are the same because they do not have "faith."

By extension, does that mean that all theists are the same because they do have "faith?"

What do you think abour those two faith-driven dichotomous thoughts?

Since I have definite opinions about that, in all probability that will be the topic of an article in the next couple of weeks.

Les what is your definition of "faith"?

Well Asha, I will use the definition from the source that I was referring to and that meant believing in a deity which would not be my definition but I wanted to leave my question(s) vague and see what others would come up with.

My definition will definitely not have the word "lack" in it.

I believe "those two faith-driven dichotomous thoughts" are very misleading and without substantiation. To me, 'faith' means believing strongly in your own truths. My faith is to live in harmony and balance with all Creation and to thank Creator every day for everything that I see, hear, touch, smell, experience. A Christian's faith would be belief in God and Jesus. I would think the Agnostic or Atheist's 'faith' would be believing in their own thoughts and belief system.

I have faith that Nature is beneficial for me today and will be just as beneficial for me tomorrow.

I once read a blog from an Atheist. He said he gets so tired of the Jehovah's Witnesses coming to his door and telling him to have Faith. "Well..." said the blogger, "I have Faith that the next time they come to my door, the sprinkler system will come on and soak them." (not exact words, but close). Just thought I would share that little story with you.

Phyllis I agree that faith can take many forms - faith in people, nature, truth...

Les another question - how would you define "deity"?

Thanks Phyliss and Asha.
My article which will focus on how Atheists and Agnostics, even though there is a major common denominator between them, are decidedly not one and the "same" nor are believers in different established theistic religions the "same" even though they share the reverse common denominator. Of course, included in the article will be my take on "faith" which like both of you will encompass a much broader "natural" spectrum.

As for my definition of deity, I am still working on it but for sure it will not include rock stars, movie/tv stars, tycoons, professional athletes, rolexes, mansions, yachts, furs, or any other superficial "idols" that are so prevalent in the consciousness of "believers" and non-believers" alike.

There is a very popular current topic at the Folklore/Mythology titled "Mark Twain Quotes."
That got me to start thinking about him. While some people consider him an atheist and many of his sayings are used in the best lists of "atheist" quotes, most evidence suggests that he was a theist. I also think that he was a theist, albeit one who obviously was not afraid to think ultra-critically and to express some strong, witty, and cutting sentiments regarding established religions, especially Christianity.

Do you have an opinion regarding Twain's religiosity?

Please take a look, if you haven't done so already at "Mark Twain Quotes." Nice going Phyllis!

For "Random Thoughts," I will only include this one as it is quite appropriate-

"One of the proofs of the immortality of the soul is that myriads have believed in it. They have also believed that the world was flat."
Mark Twain

Twain was a Presbyterian, yet for about 4 decades, he made an effort to synthesize his view of human nature and man's relationship to God and the universe. It seems that he was in deep conflict between science and religion. (source: The Bible According to Mark Twain, Introduction by Howard G. Baetzhold)

His writings during those 40 years, reflect the conflict I think he, himself, was struggling with. In Tom Sawyer Abroad (1894), Tom and Huck debated about whether the Sahara Desert was made or just happened. Tom said to Huck, "the trouble about arguments is, they ain't nothing but theories, and theories don't prove nothing, they only give you a place to rest on, a spell, when you are tuckered out butting around and around trying to find out something there ain't no way to find out." Baetzhold believes this paragraph reflects Twain's own thoughts, and I agree.

Like many people who were raised in a particular religion (in his case, Presbyterian), and later as an adult began searching for what they truly believe in because of inconsistencies and doubt throughout their lives, Twain seemed frustrated with what he considered idiosyncrasies of man and God.

For an article I wrote about Twain, I did heavy research that took me days and days -- yet I do not think I even came close to understanding what was really deep within the man's thoughts and heart. I do know that there was something profound and amazing about him -- he fascinates me.

from Mark Twain Unparalleled:

"Mark Twain was born two weeks after Halley's Comet made it's closest approach to Earth. Like a comet, he lit up the literature world and brightened the hearts of all who loved him and his works. On the night before Twain's death, Halley's Comet again lit up the night sky. The next night, April 21, 1910, Mark Twain left this world -- some say he left as he came into it: on the tail of Halley's Comet.

The Impartial Friend: Death, the only immortal who treats us all alike, whose pity and whose peace and whose refuge are for all--the soiled and the pure, the rich and the poor, the loved and the unloved.
- Mark Twain, last written statement"

Twain's thoughts and writings on religion are so vast and deep that I did not attempt to even go there. The best thing for people like me to understand Twain's thoughts and feelings is to read "The Bible According to Mark Twain" (which I have on my
Amazon Wish List) before making a guess on what he really believed.

The "Random Thought" for today is a question that I will be addressing in an article about why agnostics and atheists are not one and the same as some people believe.

Why do you think that some people, myself included, believe that strong atheists and fundamentalist Christians have more characteristics in common than do strong atheists and agnostics?

Phyliss wrote and this is confirmed by many reputable sources: Twain was a Presbyterian, yet for about 4 decades, he made an effort to synthesize his view of human nature and man's relationship to God and the universe. It seems that he was in deep conflict between science and religion. (source: The Bible According to Mark Twain, Introduction by Howard G. Baetzhold

Why then,do some "famous" lists state that (no mean trick!) that Twain was a DEIST, an AGNOSTIC, and an ATHEIST? one even says that such Transcendalists like Emily Dickinson and Ralph Waldo Emerson were ATHEISTS of which they were not. Even Benjamin Franklin who in his lifetime was an Episcopalian and later is said by many that he became a Deist is on one of the lists as an ATHEIST. William Shakespearen an ATHEIST?- well one list does say definitively that he was even though that has only been speculated upon. Albert Einstein was not an ATHEIST but he makes many lists as being one.

I could go on and on with such erroneous and misleading labeling but I will try to hold off until I write in the next few days an article about the pitfalls of relying on such "without knowledge" "Famous Lists."