BellaOnline Forums News and Politics Democratic Party President's Health Care Speech

Craig, I think you read that line out of context.

Susan was saying that Emergency care in other countries is "as good as it gets here and it costs little to nothing for those who seek such care."

It is a little easy to get lost when the conversation in flying fast and furious though!

I do have to agree that immediate services do seem to be equal in countries other than the US.

However, it is when we come to specialties that the US pulls far ahead (except far a few groundbreaking surgeons in Germany).

People DO fly into the US all the time for surgery here that they cannot get elsewhere. It is rarely the other way around, unless it is to lower cost. But inevitably when a person tries to "cut corners" on their healthcare, they wind up cutting on quality, too. (In most cases, there are a few excpetions I will concede.)

We have the best system that I know of - but it does have flaws, particularly people with pre-existing conditions, children, and the elderly; ironically the people who need healthcare the most.

And that is where it gets so tricky. Are we as a country supposed to just deny these poor folks the right to a better/healthy life just because of bad luck? Are we here in the US going to live by the adage "survival of the fittest"?

I urge everyone - no matter which side of the debate you are on to rent the movie "Gattaca". It gives some petty disturbing insight to just where we as a society may be headed for in the next 25 or so years.

Craig - Michelle is correct - I meant that it does not cost anything in the coutries that have govt healthcare.

Please keep in mind - the govt option will be only one choice if the bill is passed as Mr. Obama wants it. The bill will allow private insurance companies to continue to do business and everyone can choose which they prefer. The govt option will give the private insurance some healthy competition, once we get it together, and will hopefully lower the costs for us all - now that is capitalism at work.

I'm really shocked to read ppl complaining about this. I have to disagree about America�s brilliant health care � a place where you�re basically saying that the ill and/or poor should suffer because that's too bad for them or you don�t want to help out your fellow man, but if you�re rich or healthy well that�s just fine for you. Not exactly the Christian, love thy neighbour approach is it? That�s what society is � working together. Healthcare is the same everywhere � the more money you have, the better treatment you get. A horrible but true fact. That�s the same here in the UK with BUPA, but we also get amazing free healthcare � our healthcare is outstanding, and I know many Americans who come over here for their health and use the NHS, be that for money reasons or not � they still get a brilliant, efficient and fast service. I�m genuinely shocked that anyone would have a problem with what President Obama wishes to do � I think he�s (so far) a brilliant president and is leading America to where it should be. My aunt, when having a child in the US was told to leave the hospital unless she could provide her insurance straight away � and she was in labour! I�ve seen disabled people begging on the streets, when I lived over there, due to losing their homes because of health issues. Elderly people being refused treatment because they have no health care. I wont even get started on the psychological health issues over there. I think this is a fantastic thing for you all. I really hate the way that in many states the rich and the poor are so hugely segregated.
I agree that people will probably take advantage of it, but people take advantage of everything. People coming in from other parts of the world simply to use another countries medical services is wrong, but that�s another issue entirely.

I really feel that Steve-Cars has no right to make such a sweeping statement about how brilliant the USA healthcare is over the other countries he named. I find it quite amusing actually. Unless you�ve lived in a certain country for an extended period of time, you really shouldn�t pass judgements like that. All healthcare systems, including the USA and UK have their good and bad points, as does everything. "It's an abysmal mess in these government controlled systems." - I don't know what you're reading, but I've never found that to be true at all. I don't know anyone that has had to wait months for basical medical treatment - what a load of rubbish - the only reason ppl in certain states get faster services is because they have more money, which is exactly the same as in the UK. If I went private, I could see someone straight away too, but we don't turn away people because they can't afford the treatment and that's a huge and moral difference etc.

Michelle, you're right - the way some of these ppl's opinions read looks very much like the movie "Gattaca" - and wouldn't that be a scary and horrible place to live.

Steven,

Glad you brought in your personal perspective as one that lives in the UK. My sister-in-law came from England and was happy to correct my mistaken take on your health care system - after which I did my homework and learned about them all - this is where the internet glows - a global perspective for all if you just put in some time. No system is perfect but those that are against what President Obama is trying to create here really need to educate themselves about the realities and not just the rhetoric - thanks for offering such a point of reference.

I'm still not up to par, but all this discussion has perked me up a little bit. My question to the naysayers who believe our health care system is just fine and dandy: what would you do about the 47 million uninsured?

If you answer "They should get jobs and get health care that way," my response is, "What if they get laid off?"

If you answer, "They're not my problem," my response is, "Then stop saying you live in a society, because you are not acting as if you do."

The uninsured and poor affect all our lives. If we truly had the greatest health care system going, we wouldn't have them. We also wouldn't be perhaps the fattest country on earth.

I think the president's plan is very reasonable, and I think those who don't are not looking at it rationally. They are seeing takeover where none exists. Bush's Patriot Act, surveillance, etc. were takeover tactics -- not this plan.

Yes, Americans do come to the UK for treatment and I think many try to go to Canada for healthcare too. I met a woman in Atlanta whose husband had many years of treatment for cancer so they had long ago run out of insurance. They sold their house to pay for further treatment and moved in with her mother. He died in the end and she was still left with all the bills for his treatment. So she was a young widow, with no house and in huge debt. I felt so sorry for her. Explain how that is the best healthcare system in the world?
My family and I use the NHS frequently (my father in law has been ill for 40 years - how would he have fared in the States? They would be living with us no doubt). If you are rich and can afford private health care then you can have it in the Uk. Why don't the millions who have no healthcare stage a huge march on WAshington telling their stories to the nation. Would the others really be unmoved by their plight?

I think that is the big fear most people have - that we will not have a choice. Obama does come off as a bit of a Socialist at times, and when you first hear his speeches (epsecially if you are a die-hard, extreme left conservative) then he comes off like he wants gov't to take charge of everything and not just have an influence in things.

When his healthcare proposal first came out it was a knee-jerk response (bred of fear) that he meant gov't run healthcare would be the only option. Most people do not realize that you can have gov't funded AND private insurance at the same time. At almost seems like an oxymoron, LOL!

Michelle, (I agree that people are having a hard time understanding the coexistence of private and public health care. As for Obama sounding socialist, I think liberalism sounds socialist after eight years of extreme conservatism bordering on fascism.

The 47 million uninsured is a fictitious number first broadcast by President Obama. His last speech had the number at 30 million.
I suppose then, if we just wait until he makes a few more speeches the number will continue to shrink !
I don't think anyone feels that the US system of health care is fine and dandy by any means. It remains though, the best health care system in the world.
The biggest problem with the proposed plan, is that the approximately 15 million illegal aliens in this country will be covered at the taxpayer's expense.
One of the reasons that the state of CA. is bankrupt, is the extremely high cost of health care do to the influx of illegals. In my company, we on the east coast will pay 11% out of pocket for health care while our sister company on the west coast will pay 23%.
Like most of the other programs proposed by this administration, government run health care will significantly raise everyone's taxes. At least those of us that actually pay them.
There's also little truth to the statements that if you're happy with your current health care plan and or providers, you can keep them. Companies will be penalized for using health plans outside of the government proposed plan.

Also, if you look at the definition of Fascism, I think you'll find that the current administration and Commander in Chief represents many of the traits of a fascist as defined by The American Heritage dictionary:
Fascism a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
This government has taken control or is planning to take control of a wide range of industries and sectors of the economy. The domestic car companies (except for Ford), the energy industry with Cap and Trade (Tax), proposed government controlled health care, etc. Those who openly oppose their programs have been called racist, mob-like, swatsticka wearing (Nancy Pelosi),liars and other names.
The current and past problems with ACORN are representative of the problems big government sometimes supports. What may start as a program with the best of intentions can quickly spin out of control, especially when the government supports them with millions of tax dollars.

Sorry for carrying on... As you can see, I have my own very strong feelings and I've tried (and hopefully succeeded) in being respectful in presenting a different opinion.

Steve

So every Western country that has universal healthcare, all of Europe, Canada and Australia, are fascist but Communist countries such as China and Vietnam that do not have free healthcare are ok?
What a strange view of the world you have.