BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Philosophy Taoism

Ah yes, Cara.
The Tao gives me peace because it asks for no rituals. It allows me to accept myself; to take myself seriously, then experience self deprication, then feel confused, then laugh out loud at my human attachment to silly ideals; then shift back into seriousness, and on and on. And to do the same with others, and their ideals. It is truly humbling, and levels the ground for all of humanity. In this way, all becomes sacred - truly, truly awesome.

Shay

Shay, you are right. The true Tao asks for no rituals, but it brings peace. It's interesting to see that Tao is taken somehow more seriously in the West than in its origin. Regardless, it's a good thing.

Hi Shay:

I meant the actual teachings of Christ. I think the spiritual aspect of a belief is different from the religious aspects of it. All religions start with a philosophical belief and the religion is added later. The rituals and bylaws are usually not a part of the origional teachings.
Take Taoism as an example. You've been comparing the actual belief with the religious Taoism. Cara talked about it being taken more serious in the west. That, I think, is because in the west only the belief is focused on, but in the east it has become a "practice".
Not sure if I am making sense on this. But if you stop thinking about the Christian religion and only focus on what jesus said.. on his words and his teachings, they have much in common. The belief is there before religion is born. I see this as the difference between spirituality and religion.
Belief or spirituality is what is there to begin with, religion is what man decides to do with it.
You can disagree with the religion and still agree with the belief. Just as I do not agree with the Taoist religion, but I am deffinitly a Taoist in belief... thus I see it as a philosophy, while others may make it a religion.
Christianity is a religion based on the philosophy of Jesus.
"Taoism" is a religion based on Tao philosophy.

No religion was ever created around the babblings of an idiot. it is when wise people teach wise things that people decide to follow them. Some people need manifestations of that belief so they have rituals and religion. others do not necessarily need manifestations and thy do not follow a religious practice.

I say.. to each his own

Bylen

I totally hear you, Balen. If there were indeed a Jesus, the Tao would be in sync with his message. It matters not of the religion his followers would create, in his name.

Both the Tao and the teachings of Christ were one of fundamental acceptance of the core pulse of all that "is."

You are also so right that everyone recieves the Tao in individual ways, according to their own personal nature, in relationship to the nature of the earth. As it should be.

Blessings,
Shay

Shay?

I viewed your profile but it doesn't say how old you are? Would you mind if I ask?
You have great wisdom. I was just wondering if you are one of those old souls born into the world wise, or if you learned it along the way.
There are those who seem to be born with the ability to learn from life early, those who learn it along the way, and those who never take the time to learn at all. I know you are one of the first two... but which one?

Hugs
Bylen

Hi Balen,

I wish I could answer your question in its full capacity, yet I am honored by it. I can tell you that I am 46 years old.

Beyond my years of age, I can offer you only that I can remember being an infant, and having the distict understanding that all human beings are connected by a single source.

It has been a painful, yet rewarding lesson for me that not many people share my view. I am by no means a perfect student of the Tao. I am horrified by the atrocities that I see among humanity, yet through these feelings, I am reminded that all is what it is, with or without my responses. I can then come around to the feeling of peace and joy, that it is what it is because....well, it is. Then I revel in (I am nearly owned by) the moments when the light streams through the trees, and the moss covered stumps sit silently, the dried leaves drift from where, in the springtime they thrived and filled me, and now fill me again. In these moments, I realize the sacredness of life.

Hugs to you, Teacher,
Shay

I had a friend that was wanting to be a cathloic monk. Unfortunatly they turned him down. But he stayed at the monestary every summer and learned all he could. He was only 21 but wise beyond his years. I mention this because he asked me if I had ever been overwhelemed by the beauty of life. I said yes.
He said, there is a word for it.. "beautific vision". When you suddenly for an instant see the beauty in everything around you.
Being a taoist can be lonely, there's not really anyone to talk to about it. And if there were.. well, where are the words to explain it?

You are right Shay, no one is immune. I am sure a Taoist who can remove themselves from the world and sit and meditate all day would be immune, but to what purpose? Those of us who must relate to the world around us, have to accept it and do the best with it that we can.
I, by no means, live a Taoist life every single minute. I still get angry, I still feel sad. And sometimes I have to conciously remind myself of my own philosophy.
I think that is the way it is with any belief. We all fall short.. it is the striving that counts. But I also think that eventually it becomes who you are and you don't necessarily have to think on it. you just become it.

I wouldn't say I was born wise. perhaps born with eyes open, but it took a lifetime for me to learn what I was seeing, with some mistakes along the way, and great pain. I'll not go into the long explaination here.. if you are interested I posted my story on the Spirituality forum under the topic "miracles".

Hugs
Bylen

Very well said, Bylen.

I went over to the Spirituality, Miracle thread and read your story. It's amazing.

"Beautific vision." I love it. And yes, exactly, if you can speak of the Tao, it is not the Tao. One can only speak of one's experiences on the level of spiritual belief, or longing.

I guess I could say that I was born wise, to a mother who was mentally ill, and could only see the world as a force that was "against" her. She was only capable of seeing me as someone who could potentially harm her - as she did with all six of her children. She became what is termed, as "separator." She orchestrated her children in such a way as to keep us from being close to each other - in that way she could have total control. She got to tune in to each of our vulnerabilities separately, and while she capitalized on that, kept us each focused on her and her pain, so that we would not be present for each other.

I was also in an abusive marriage, like yourself, (no surprise!) which reflected the one that I had with my mother. As a "wise" person who fell into the complex structure of lies that my mother believed in and taught me well, I found myself on the brink of either insanity or enlightenment toward the end of my marriage. My life had come down to these two choices. I literally stood at the edge of a psychic ledge, and made the choice of enlightenment. I chose to kick my ex to the curb, and begin my journey of healing and truth.

Much of the Tao Teh Ching is about the way of the Sage. Yet, in one passage (or chapter as they are called; yet it is difficult to relate to a chapter being a page or so long...) Lao Tzu speaks of his loneliness in comparison to those who laughed and expressed their happiness with one another. It truly is this way. Yet, to keep things in realistic perspective, Lao Tzu lived in a very different time and within the Asian culture. To maintain the type of solitude and simplicity he experienced would be nearly impossible in this century in the American capitalist society. We live in a world of worshipping "want" and chasing "happiness" through products and services that we should gladly pay money for. To find a spot in the countryside in which to contemplate nature and the nature of being, is sometimes within driving distance, if we are lucky.

So yes, it is true that it is the "striving" that really matters.

Such is chapter 13:

"'Welcome disgrace as a pleasant surprise.
Prize calamities as your own body.'

Why should we 'welcome disgrace as a pleasant surprise'?
Because a lowly state is boon:
Getting is a pleasant surprise,
Ans so is losing it!
That is why we should 'welcome disgrace as a pleasant surprise.'

Why should we 'prize calamities as our own body'?
Because our body is the very source of our calamities.
If we have no body, what calamities can we have?

Hence, only he who is willing to give his body for the sake of the world is fit to be entrusted with the world.
Only he who can do it with love is worthy of being the steward of the world."

While this appears to be a tall order to fill, as you make the choice to let go, release the grip on the belief that wanting is the source of receiving, all falls into place - in truly miraculous ways.

Hugs,
Shay

I so appreciate you ladies sharing your thoughts with me.

Taoism sounds incredibly, logical to me, balanced.

I love that last passage you quoted Shay. It is a take on "what does not kill me makes me stronger", except it exlains WHY!

Bylen & Shay,
I really enjoy reading the beautiful posts between the two of you. I am very honored to have you both sharing your wisdom on the Philosophy forum.