logo
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 65
Amoeba
OP Offline
Amoeba
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 65
Abortion has been the perennial issue between pro-choice and anti-choice activists. Now the fact that anti-choicers don't like birth control either is coming to light. What do you think is the best thing the pro-choice camp can do to combat this new facet of the anti-choice movement?


Elizabeth Ross
Pro-Choice
Sponsored Post Advertisement
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 122
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 122
Argh, UBB ate my post.

Long post short - restricting or eliminating birth control removes women's rights. It seems we are going backward.

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
G
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
G
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
Originally Posted By: TrishInNC
Argh, UBB ate my post.

Long post short - restricting or eliminating birth control removes women's rights. It seems we are going backward.


Could it happen? It doesn't make sense? This is a subject I'm not up to speed on, so please be tolerant with me if my question seems dumb. smile

Question? Is it only ever various religious groups or people who push the anti-barrow? Or are there other groups too?

Anyway, I agree with the comment that it's a backward step if it were to succeed. Yep, sure do.

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 65
Amoeba
OP Offline
Amoeba
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 65
It's being pushed primarily by religious groups, like the Roman Catholic Church. It's a concern because of the various conservative judges Bush has appointed over the past eight years. There's more information on this issue here:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!


Elizabeth Ross
Pro-Choice
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
G
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
G
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
"Now the American Life League is encouraging people to protest birth control pills in front of facilities that provide them. The primary basis for their arguments is that even before fertilization, human ovum should be considered pre-born children � this is my assumption, based on their contention that birth control pills are in fact abortifacient because they create a �hostile environment� for the creation of life."

Surely you jest! Wow! Well I don't know where my eggs go every month, but they sure as hell don't turn into babies! The female body must be the biggest natural 'abortifacient' machine on the planet then.

I've never looked upon my monthly ovum as a pre-born child. Just as a 1/2 cup of sugar, 2 cups of flour, a bit of milk, square of butter and egg sitting on the kitchen bench isn't a cake. There's the potential for a cake, but it's not a cake.


Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 122
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 122
Gaye, I'm going to try again.

It wasn't so long ago (both my parents lived through it) when a woman was fired or not hired when she got married. Even after that, women are assumed to be the primary caretaker, and if they are of childbearing age, are assumed that they *will* become pregnant and take time for all of the medical appointments, then maternity leave, then will be more dedicated to kids than the job.

Removing the option of birth control gives a woman exactly three choices. Remain celibate both outside and inside marriage, use family planning, or have children. Family planning, while more effective than nothing, is not anywhere near foolproof, and if contraception is banned, I am 100% certain abortion would be banned. So, in order to remain totally child free a woman would have to be celibate, which is ridiculous within a marriage, and pretty darn ludicrous in my opinion for a grown adult.

So, if we remove contraception, we are faced with the high probability that most women will have children. Given the type of ideologies that protest birth control, how long is it until women are *forced* to stay home? Or if not, how long until they are officially discriminated against in the workplace, because of course, they are or should be more invested in the home?

As soon as I see how this election shakes out, I'm going to get sterilized before it is too late for me to do so.

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,966
E
Koala
Offline
Koala
E
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,966
Originally Posted By: Gaye Atheist/Agnostic

Surely you jest! Wow! Well I don't know where my eggs go every month, but they sure as hell don't turn into babies! The female body must be the biggest natural 'abortifacient' machine on the planet then.



I wonder if that there doesn't explain at least part of the antipathy certain religions have towards women. Combine this (that women's bodies can take "life" away) with the fact that women have the ability to "create" life within their bodies, and you have something that doesn't sit very comfortably in some religious mindsets requiring an outside control over life and death. Maybe a discussion to move over to your forum, Gaye?


Elle Carter Neal
BellaOnline Alumna
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
G
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
G
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
Originally Posted By: TrishInNC
Gaye, I'm going to try again.......

Removing the option of birth control gives a woman exactly three choices. Remain celibate both outside and inside marriage, use family planning, or have children. Family planning, while more effective than nothing, is not anywhere near foolproof, and if contraception is banned, I am 100% certain abortion would be banned. So, in order to remain totally child free a woman would have to be celibate, which is ridiculous within a marriage, and pretty darn ludicrous in my opinion for a grown adult......

As soon as I see how this election shakes out, I'm going to get sterilized before it is too late for me to do so.


Gosh Trish, that last comment of yours just shows how terribly concerned you are about where all this desire to control women's birth control options might be leading.

How crazy is it all?

I can't help thinking 'aren't there much bigger issues on the planet'? If any religious group wants to make an issue of 'right to life' then why don't they show it by getting involved in helping the living first?

So many tragic little children's faces on humanitarian websites needing adoption, fostering and homes. Why don't they focus on that instead? If I saw someone protesting outside an abortion clinic without a little refugee baby on their hip (which probably isn't the best place to take a child, I admit) I'd want to tell them they were full of it. Why not put up or shut up?

World Vision for example. I know it's not much considering...., but I've got one credit card going just for World Vision child sponsoring. And I feel inadequate even about that.

Back on topic. Without legalized birth control we return to a situation of backyard abortions. Is that the alternative? How gruesome!!! Very nasty for the victims and highly profitable for the quacks. And Pennyroyal or Peppermint Tea can only do so much.

I had children using the Billings method! LOL. Not that I mind now. No way!!!!But it sure was a surprise at the time, I can tell you. I was almost tempted to hunt down Dr Billings and tell him a thing or two, but being a christian and a pro-lifer I didn't.

It's not anyone else's business but the womans what she does with her body, or her life, so long as she's taking responsibility for herself.

I've seen what eventuates with unwanted or inconvenient children. It's just darn terrible.

Mind you, I've known women who didn't want children and had them, and are wonderful, and very happy mothers.

But having an unwanted child, very sad. They're emotionally handicapped even before day one! I have nightmares sometimes about the condition of some of the unwanted kids lives I know. I'm like that. It really gets to me.

Anyway, enough of that. I was just returning here to say, 'keep up the good work'. And that I completely agree with your position and forum purpose. Also, I've read your banner, so I imagine that means you've come in for some pretty serious flack.

So just offering an alternative POV. Soldier on, keep on truckin', and more power to ya'.

The more freedoms for women won, the better!





Last edited by Gaye Atheist/Agnostic; 05/14/08 09:24 AM.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 65
Amoeba
OP Offline
Amoeba
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 65
Thanks. As for trolls, on a scale of 1 - 10, 10 being the worst, the ones I encountered here barely rated a 3. But, I'm an old veteran of flame wars - nothing surprises me.

On this issue, I get even more annoyed than on any other. The woman who will probably be my maid of honor is lucky to be with us right now. She is one of the statistics on the birth control pills - had a heart attack in her early 30's as a side effect. Part of the reason that happened is because of the moralistic arguments over the pill. Drug companies aren't doing as much research as they could to find effective birth control for women without such dire side effects. There also isn't enough research in the U.S. into a pill for men - I suspect because research on drugs of that kind overseas was finding that impotence was a possible side effect. Why would they even bother, since there's little chance that the FDA would approve a drug that could do that? They're more interested in making sure a man avoids impotence.


Elizabeth Ross
Pro-Choice
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 122
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 122
Gaye, that statement is more inflammatory if you don't know me.

I am very very stubborn, and while I can agree to do onerous or tedious jobs, I refuse to let anyone, especially the government, dictate what I can do, or cannot do, with my body.

I am child-free by choice, and taking away my birth control options would essentially force me to do something I do not want to do. DH is getting snipped in about a month, and sterilization is free for me as well, all I have to do is convince my doctor.

Do I believe contraception will be outlawed? Not really. I believe we may well see abortion outlawed again. In that case, I want to be sterilized, because I want NO chances of having a child, even if I am raped.

I don't want to risk hormonal contraception; I am 33, a smoker, and had a small blood clot in my leg. (near the surface, not deep, but it made me nervous) That leaves barrier methods which are only effective when you're deliberately having sex, and an IUD. I have an IUD now, and while it's nice not to have to remember anything, I have really painful cramping and spot for ~3 weeks of every cycle. Hence, sterilization.

Your paragraph about unwanted children really reaffirms my decision to be CF and my determination to remain that way. I might be a good mom to a teenager (I have a 12 yr old stepdaughter) but I have absolutely no desire to be pregnant or give birth, and I really don't like, nor know what to do with, small children. I can teach and mentor and guide, but I think I would really resent the hard job that parenting small children is.

Thanks for your respectful comments; civilized discourse is much more valuable to all sides than putting someone on the defensive, but I'm sure you know that!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 65
Amoeba
OP Offline
Amoeba
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 65
Trish, I'm in about the same boat as you, at least where hormonal birth control is concerned. My mother had severe reactions to the pill, we share complications with pharmaceuticals in general, so the doctors never even suggested the pill for me based on her history. Now my doctor says that I should have a partial hysterectomy, but hasn't done it because the reasons aren't "severe enough" for insurance to cover it. I'd love to give those insurance adjusters my severe cramping, break-through bleeding, and hemorrhages, then see whether or not they stick with that assessment! Would also love to tell the women's groups who say I'm wrong for even wanting the hysterectomy where to put their thoughts. Now there's a pro-choice issue that rarely is heard thanks to the screaming over abortion.


Elizabeth Ross
Pro-Choice
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
G
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
G
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
Hi Trish, sorry I missed your reply/post.

"I don't want to risk hormonal contraception; I am 33, a smoker, and had a small blood clot in my leg. (near the surface, not deep, but it made me nervous) That leaves barrier methods which are only effective when you're deliberately having sex, and an IUD. I have an IUD now, and while it's nice not to have to remember anything, I have really painful cramping and spot for ~3 weeks of every cycle. Hence, sterilization."

My goodness, that all sounds dreadful. And clotting is a really serious danger. As far as the the pill is concerned it gave me dreadful morning sickness. Condoms also failed. Billings failed. And I had to hide all my contraceptive issues from the church I was in.

My daughter, who is quite a placid girl also gets morning sickness from the pill. So she had an implant put in her arm after her first child was born. It quite literally sent her off her head, and my son-in-law actually was really quite frightened for them all. The doctor had to quickly whip it out of her arm, and after a couple of weeks she settled down.

She's since had another child, and she has to either have at least 3 children or, ( I think??) be around 35 or 40 y/o before she can get her tubes tied.

They really don't want 3 children, they're very content and happy with 2 children, a boy and girl, and have plans to do things in a few years when the kids are able to travel. Hubby's not too happy about it all, but he's looking into getting the snip so they can make plans for their future. A bit of stalling going on there I think smile . But they've got to do something, They both work, she is also studying, and they've already got all they want, 2 small children. It's a real bother.

I think sterilization is a decision that is any person's right, so long as they're making an intelligent and informed decsion.

I hope it's okay to share a joke here that a friend sent me recently.

If men could get pregnant, abortion would not only be legal, it would be a sacrament!! smile


Joined: May 2007
Posts: 655
M
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 655
Originally Posted By: Liz-Pro-Choice Editor
Now my doctor says that I should have a partial hysterectomy, but hasn't done it because the reasons aren't "severe enough" for insurance to cover it. I'd love to give those insurance adjusters my severe cramping, break-through bleeding, and hemorrhages, then see whether or not they stick with that assessment!


Do try to fight the insurance company for it. My sil had to do that -- she had a terrible time with fibroids, was losing work and had to cancel travel plans because her bleeding was so heavy, but the insurance company tried to say, "Well, you'll should be in menopause in 6-8 years, so no, you don't get the hysterectomy." She fought for it -- and got it.

Did you ever read Rainmaker? In that book, the (awful) insurance company had a policy of automatically turning everyone down, no matter what -- so unless someone really fought, they wouldn't get treatments.


Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 503
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 503
I am not in a position to have to take birth control BUT here is my opinion on how I will certainly suggest my Daughter in Law and Grand Daughter combat the "no birth control" issue...tell the husband there will be no "fun" without it(yes even religious men love sex) and that they can just do it themselves, I honestly believe that if women all got together and stuck with this, you watch how fast there would probably be free birth control for everyone. Weather people like to admit it or not sex sells and controls alot of things. I am not a sex expert but I am pretty sure that a woman can hold out longer than a man smile Hopefully we will always have a choice. In my lifetime I have only had the pleasure of meeting just a few males who felt like they had to control a woman and that no wife of theirs was going to be on birth control, they are out there and on the other hand I have met a few women who did not believe in birth control until after their 4th or 5th child and by then they just had their tubes tied.

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 31
C
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
C
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 31
I don't believe there will come a time when birth control is outlawed here. Up until the 50's no church in the US, meaning all denominations, tolerated it. You see how relaxed that has gotten.
I do believe that any woman claiming to be educated and enlightened will know the HOW the pill works in it's entirety-which is perfectly explained in the physicians desk reference and even on most pill fliers that come with your monthly allotment. Mine always had it in there. It's just not good sense to put something into our bodies not considering how it will affect our physiology either in the present or the future.
I doubt it's anything to get up in arms about even if some folks want to go nuts over it. There are far more important issues than going around constantly shouting about this particular one, until it's time. Some people would actually be in danger if pregnant and I happen to realize that. However I come from the first batch of women that utilized the pill, and my mom nearly died while on it. So I have issues with for other reasons.


Orthodox homeschooling mom to 7, one with Rett Syndrome
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Suzanne-Pro-Choice Editor 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Brand New Posts
Make It Sew Easier
by Cheryl - Sewing Editor - 03/27/24 04:34 PM
2024 - on this day in the past ...
by Mona - Astronomy - 03/27/24 01:31 PM
Planner Template Kit - Weekly Layout Template
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:39 PM
Planner Template Kit - Yearly Layout Template
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:37 PM
How to Use Digital Planner Template Kit
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:36 PM
Review - 20 Illustrator Color tips Helen Bradley
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:32 PM
March Equinox to June Solstice
by Mona - Astronomy - 03/26/24 12:27 PM
Hobotrader unleashes never seen opportunity with i
by Jamal molla - 03/26/24 11:55 AM
Psalm for the day
by Angie - 03/25/24 09:05 AM
Genealogy, Sort of
by Angie - 03/24/24 05:39 PM
Sponsor
Safety
We take forum safety very seriously here at BellaOnline. Please be sure to read through our Forum Guidelines. Let us know if you have any questions or comments!
Privacy
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you and updates on any topics you choose to watch. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!


| About BellaOnline | Privacy Policy | Advertising | Become an Editor |
Website copyright © 2022 Minerva WebWorks LLC. All rights reserved.


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5