BellaOnline Forums News and Politics Pro-Life Pro-life/Pro-choice debates...

I am pro-choice and I am just going to throw my opinion in the mix here. Not being rude or attacking or anything.

Michelle, I love the idea of being able to move the fetus to a woman who would want the child. That would be an extremely wise investment to figure out how to do that safely. Great point.

I am pro-choice for the same reasons as anyone else who is pro-choice I think. I am a little more unsure about the later term procedures, but I wouldn't tell a woman what to do with her own body or life.

Just like someone else said, you can talk about birth control and keep your legs closed, or what ever until you are blue in the face. But I know plenty of women who got pregnant while on birth control. And I know, this isn't always the case and that some people just don't use birth control when they should. I understand that.

I am all for more education, easy to get and cheap birth control, counseling, and other smart, productive ways to reduce the need for abortions.

But I think with as much as it is part of our society, it would be very unwise to make it illegal. We need to keep it in a safe, sterile setting with people who know what they are doing. If this is not available, too many women will find other ways of doing it. Or we would find more babies abandoned in garbage cans or add to the numbers of unwanted children that need to be adopted, or more families living off of welfare, etc.

I think both sides of this issue have very valid points, and I always try to respect everyones opinion. And no matter how much we (general people I mean) argue or debate, I don't think there will ever be a resolution that makes everyone happy. There never is.

I'd like to begin with I am both pro-choice and pro-baby. I tried to have a baby and had five miscarriages. I understand that it's difficult for people to see someone having an abortion when they so badly want a baby. I can't tell you how much I understand that. At the same time, the best way, in my opinion, to end abortion isn't to make it illegal. No, the best way to reduce or eliminate abortion is to begin to value motherhood in this country and to value women. We only value motherhood if the woman is married - to a man - and continues to stay married. If there is a divorce, we find out how little we value motherhood when stay at home moms are penalized in the divorce for doing so.

We say that women should place children for adoption but if the child isn't healthy and white, the chances of it getting adopted aren't all that great.

Perhaps our money and our lobbying efforts would best be spent by demanding that the government fund research on safe, effective contraception so that abortions aren't needed. .

We say women should take the responsibility for the children they create but we don't pay much more than lipservice to the idea that men should, too. At least as far as legislation goes. And, really, you should see how many children are in foster care because their parents abuse them. It's shocking.



I'd like to know who wrote the post you're referring to because "fully-formed fetuses" do not get aborted with any frequency.. It most cases, abortions can only be done until 12 weeks and at that stage, it is not a fully-formed fetus. Also, if a fetus is aborted, it cannot be flushed down the toilet, it has to be disposed of with medical waste. People write that stuff and I know beyond any doubt that they are lying. Flat out lying, or else working for the most unethical of doctors who should be reported immediately. They are guilty of breaking the law as well if they comply with such practices.

For the record, late term abortions are *rare.* All the laws for the so-called "partial birth abortion" that have been passed are really unnecessary. No doctor is going to perform an abortion that late unless it is medically necessary. You and I - or even other doctors - may feel that it *isn't* medically necessary but that doesn't negate the fact that the treating physician did and they are not common. "Partial-birth abortion" isn't even a medical term -it's a name created for sensationalist purposes.

I realize this post sounds far more strident than I intend it to be. I understand that this is a really difficult topic for people. Abortion , for the majority of women who have them, is not an easy decision. Reputable abortion providers, such as Planned Parenthood - in the clinics that actually do abortions and many do not - do not try to push women to have abortions. They give the woman all of her options and she decides for herself.

I don't think everyone has to agree with me. What a boring world it would be if everyone were just like me! I welcome the opportunity to talk with people about what they've learned, what their experiences are and sometimes I learn new things. I hope people learn new things from me, too.

Thanks for the welcoming environment in this area. I do not think pro-life people are stupid or religious freaks who just don't know any better or any of the other stereotypes. I think that pro-life people are people who have deeply held convictions that should be respected, just as mine should.

Barbara, I was also wondering about the post that talked about flushing fetuses down the toilet, and forgot to add that question. It just doesn't sound correct. I don't think any medical facility would flush anything of that sort down the toilet.
I so agreed with your post and was glad to read your well thought opinions.
I agree about most pro-life people not being like the stereotypes put on them, and the same for pro-choice stereotypes as well. I guess a stereotype is a stereotype no matter who you are talking about.
We are all just people...people with different opinions.

I was the one who posted that I read about flushing fetuses down the toilet. There are many news reports on the Internet, but here is one that lists several:

[url]http://realchoice.blogspot.com/2005/06/that-says-it-all-doesnt-it.html[url]


Abortionist Sidney Knight got in trouble when the Department of Public Works reported that fetuses were disposed of by grinding them and flushing them into the sanitary sewer system. (Department of Public Works letter 12-29-89)

Former abortion entrepeneur Eric Harrah was fined after a Delaware plumber told investigators that he had installed an "industrial guage" garbage disposal at his Brandywine Valley Women's Center. Employees told investigators that they routinely flushed 8 to 20 week fetuses down the disposal. (Wilmington News Journal 12-3-94, 12-4-93, 12-15-93, 8-22-93, 4-16-94; Philadelphia Inquirer 7-11-93; State News 1-4-95)

Abortionist Curtis Stover filed an affidavit stating that he vomited after observing abortionist James Park's method of disposing of aborted fetuses of 15 to 22 weeks gestation: he ground them up with a standard kitchen meat grinder and flushed the tissue down the sink. In a letter to the health department, Stover stated that Parks told him he had developed this method because the fetuses would "stop up" the toilet and because he did not want fetuses retrieved from the trash by pro-lifers. (Letter by Stover dated 6-15-92, affidavit by Stover dated 6-15-92; Up The Creek 9-11-92; excerpt from Parks' deposition 2-4-91 Arapahoe County District Court Case No. 90CV432)

---And in her own words:
This is where I read about the fetuses. From a former abortion nurse who told of late term fetuses being flushed:

[url]http://www.clinicquotes.com/kathy%20sparks.htm[url]

---

Look, I am a moderate when it comes to political views and I'm pretty open to hearing and considering both sides. Unfortunately that means I end up pissing off both sides! I only posted what I'd read.

Lori, I know what you mean about annoying both sides! I think I do that too while trying to understand all points of view.
I understand that you only posted what you read and I read the link you provided.
I guess I should change my statement I made previously to no legitimate responsible medical facility would flush medical waste down the toilet.

Oh, you didn't make me mad at all, Lori! I was just shocked - and I didn't mean to imply that *you* were lying, by the way. I guess there are unethical practices in many fields, so I shouldn't be surprised if they pop up in this one.

Yotagrl - thanks.

Ohhh. *phew*

I do know that legally an aborted fetus (and even miscarriages are termed aborted pregnancies medically) is legally supposed to be sent to pathology along with the placenta to make sure all parts are there.

Because if any portion of the fetus or placenta are left in the woman's body it can cause her to hemmorhage. The uterus continues to contract, and if there is nothing to contract on then those contractions are what helps stop the bleeding. But if the placenta is still there (which is highly vascular) - then the uterus contracting forces more and more blood through the plancental scraps and cause her to bleed to death.

The hospital I worked at as a surgical tech did not do elective abortions, but if a woman came in with a tubal pregnancy or bleeding from a partial miscarriage - then we would have to finish the delivery/abortion in order to save the mother's life. In these cases the fetus was already dead.

I had always been pro-life, but the first time I held a tiny little fetus about the size of the first digit of my thumb - still only particlly formed, but obviously a baby, as soon as the surgery was over (it was a ruptured tubal) I went into the nurses lounge and had hysterics.

When I was young I heard many stories of pregnant women who had gone to what they called a 'back street doctor' and suffered terrible harm, even lost their lives, because they trusted someone to perform an abortion who was not bound by any sort of medical ethics or accountability.

Even when I was a teenager, there were very few hospitals that were available for legal procedures. Some women, especially the very young, would get ideas in their minds that they could cause a miscarriage by various means, and cause more damage than the back street quacks.

I heard most stories from nurses ~ I think infection was a real danger, because I would hear of the ravages of high fevers more than the loss of blood. I wonder if such things still happen as often as they did back then. It's always the people on the front lines in healthcare, nurses and PAs, who see the worst.

That is probably why most pro-life friends in the medical community are 'pro-choice' - and very supportive of programs that prevent pregnancy.

Sarah Palin's daughter, and Governor Palin herself, were quoted in the Fox interview as saying that abstinence is 'unrealistic' - and while I would not want to eliminate that as an option to promote with teens - there must be other education and social programs we can promote that would reduce or work to eliminate the high number of abortions that we have in the USA.

When I read that 90% of women with a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome choose to have an abortion, it's obvious to me that many otherwise pro-life women make the decision not to bring a child with Down syndrome into the world - especially since so many 'pro-choice' advocates have chosen to give birth to and raise their sons and daughters who have Down syndrome.

I can't help but think that we can do more to support women who are pregnant, and to support mothers raising young children, so they do not make that choice for 'practical' reasons. It's heartbreaking to think any woman would have a reason to make that choice, but they certainly do, and probably more so with an economy in collapse.

Pam W
SE of Seattle