BellaOnline Forums Education Gifted Education student rejected by Ivies, despite stellar record

>Just 54 percent of students entering four-year colleges in 1997 had a degree six years later

From what I hear, part of the problem is that the kids can't get into the classes that they need in order to graduate on time. Things have changed a lot since I went to college!

That was part of my problem as well. The classes that were required were offered only every other year and they filled up quickly. Makes it quite hard to get your degree on time.

Don't see my response, so let's try this again! (And apologies if it posts double!)

>Just 54 percent of students entering four-year colleges in 1997 had a degree six years later

From things I've read, many students have trouble getting into the classes they need in order to graduate on time. If ALL the students need x,y, and z, they are all clamoring for too few slots -- or the remaining slots may not fit with the courses required for their major... quite a dilemma!

Things are certainly different than when I went to college!

Jase-

I'm amazed that you applied to so many schools! That was before the common app existed, right? How steep were the combined application fees?

I had absolutely no guidance regarding college applications. I applied to only two, as I was concerned about the application fees. I applied to the large city U my boyfriend attended and BU because I used to take German classes there as a kid. Got into both, and went to the school that offered me more aid. Large U was a horrible fit for me. Years later, my Mom said she wished I had gone to Wellesley, but I never heard a peep about it when it was applications time. I was completely ignorant of how different schools could be.

Whatever paths they choose, you can bet that my kids will be better informed about what options are available to them.

Yes, lots of schools do have classes that fill up quickly and lock students out and/or have classes with pre-reqs that force students to be there more than 4 years if they don't plan out the entire four years from the first semester well and/or have necessary classes that are held on the same time and day and so you can't take them all the same semester. Our son's alma mater had all three problems when he went there; I wrote the dean of CSEE about the last one and got it changed immediately once I pointed out how the inability of students to graduate in 4 years was hurting the college's ranking on two scores - low graduation rate, as many students quit or transferred - and low alumni giving as even for those who graduated, some felt it took them an extra semester or more and felt ripped off by the school, which doesn't tend to make for generous graduates. These are things few students or parents would think to investigate in advance of issues cropping up, and something top 10 schools would likely never pull as they know parents paying around $40K/year or more in tuition and room and board would not just holler at their children for taking over 4 years to graduate, but the college officials.

Lorel,

yes, it was before the current trend to choose tons of schools.

I never paid application fees as mine were waived. if I would have paid for all those apps.. I would have had to pay close to 3000.

I was under the impression that early admission was really only supposed to be done for one school - for the one you really wanted to go to. They treated your application differently because you were telling them you would in essence pretty much go there if accepted.

i did early acceptance because I could graduate high school early and the normal dates of admission didn't apply. I was told that was how to do it.

I don't know how it is done now, but I do know it is harder to get early acceptance for some students. My niece did early acceptance for 3 different schools and I do not know which she is choosing in the end. i think she is still waiting for aid packages from two of them.

I am still waiting my admissions acceptance from the school i am trying to transfer to and will hopefully get decent aid or else it will be slow going to go there. I know my pell will be there but don't know about my loans.

Early acceptance may or may not lock you into one school (if its even available). It just depends on whether or not they contract the student and how the contract reads. Its a bit of "buyer beware."

As for students taking longer to complete degrees, it's not so much an issue of classes not being available as a combination of many other factors (including required credits, sequencing, advising, funding, time).

A major problem for many students is related to the misconception that they should only take 12 credit hours per semester (if on a semester system). Then they drop a class, etc., etc. This creates major problems in terms of sequencing as well as time to degree.

Another issue relates to guidance (or the lack thereof). Many schools don't offer in person guidance; and rely entirely on the student to research what's required and how courses fall in sequence. If you don't take courses in particular order or during particular semesters, you lock yourself out of course options.

Another issue many students face, especially in highly technical programs (engineering, architecture, accounting, some others) is that these programs are now designed to run a span of 5 years--not 4.

There is also the issue of funding (many students cannot afford, even with financial aid, to pursue full time studies); and time (many students have to work to support families in addition to paying for school).

Progress takes planning; and if you don't plan well, you're in a bit of a bind. Especially when most undergraduate degrees now require a student to have between 130-145 credit hours.

One other thought... Retention (which is typically just a measure of how many first-time, full-time freshman return for their sophomore year) has little meaning in an era where moving from school to school is almost as easy as changing shirts. Time to degree is also not so significant a measure of success (for some of the reasons I mention above). What's more important, to me, is graduation rates (if measured appropriately). I want to know, of the students who enter your college (either freshmen or transfers), how many stay to finish a degree. That has real meaning for me.