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No Service Dog Allowed: Principal Defies Ruling

In violation of a ruling by New York State's Human Rights Division, the principal of W. Tresper Clarke High School stood in the schoolhouse doorway and refused entrance to 15-year-old John Cave yesterday, as long as he had his service dog with him. Cave is a deaf teenager with cochlear implants....


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When I first read the headline, I was appalled. But the comment about kids with allergies actually does make sense. (The one about the dog getting in the way during fire drills is a bunch of bunk - that's what the dog is trained for!)

But a child with severe asthma that is allergic to dogs could have serious problems if in the same classroom with this boy - even if the class is not at the same time, but the dog hair is left afterwards.

That is a tough call...

But they didn't even say whether there was a child with severe asthma allergic to dogs at the school. If there were, they could make sure that the dog and that child are never in a class together. And in that case, does the severely asthmatic child never go out in public, for fear of encountering a dog? Service dogs are supposed to be allowed in any public place, so what if the asthmatic child was in a restaurant with a service dog, or on an airplane?

I agree about the part about the dog getting in the way during fire drills being bunk...to that argument, you'd have to say wheelchairs and crutches might get in the way too...

I think the school is in the wrong here. This is a service dog, not a pet, and protected by laws and such. Provisions could be made to keep children with dog allergies out of range of the dog, if necessary.

Cindy

While I never had a hearing dog, I did look into it at one stage. I regularly hear of stories where hearing dogs are not allowed on buses and other public transport. It's another case of hearing being a disability which is hidden.

According to the law he should have been let in. Yes another boy might have allergies but what if he was away from teachers and students when not just a drill but an actual fire started. The dog would have been able to assist him out of the situation. Otherwise he may not have noticed until it was to late. Refusing him to take his service dog into the school was not only immoral but illegal. The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) can charge up to $20,000 dollars for the offence and you also get a federal (ada is us law not state)charge on your permanent record.... good luck getting a job anywhere after that happens.

Well, but actually I agree that a dog isn't the best solution here. A dog is a solution which actively interferes with other students' abilities to learn.

On the cruise ship we took last December, we were assigned a hearing-impaired room. It was equipped with flashing lights. If there is a deaf student in the school, they should install flashing lights in the bathrooms and in the classrooms. That way the student would know if there was any sort of issue. Otherwise you are put in a position where one student or the other "can't take an advanced math class" and you have to choose "which disability gets preference". That doesn't make any sense at all to me. There needs to be a solution where both students are equally safe and have equal access to every class.

I do understand you point of view but after you deny one type of service animal then it becomes easier to deny other types. What will happen one day when they are able to deny medical alert animals. There is no way for them to compensate for an individual who is reliant on one of these. Unless you know of a magical doctor who can detect a medical condition like a seizure, heart attack, and or stroke and is willing to lay on the person's chest and lick their face till they respond. This may sound silly but there are certain things that a service animal can provide that a flashing light can not. Until you live with one I don't know if you can really understand it. They don't just help you around occasionally they give you your life back in many cases.

It wouldn't be a magical doctor - but surely there are electronic heart monitoring devices that can detect heart issues and strokes?

I'm not sure its actually legal to dis-allow a handicapped person from entering a facility or public transportation with their service animal based on what I have read in the Americans with Disabilities act.

If there was a child with asthma or allergies so terrible that this would be a problem then of course some other solution would have to be formed.

I thought this principle was out of line and I hope they find a way to settle this and fix it so people in this young mans position don't have to deal with this problem. It would throw me off terribly to be treated that way.

If he attends a public school, I was under the impression that they HAD to accomodate his disability even at extra cost to the school.

they do have to accommodate his disability to his standard of living not theirs. I'm a disability advocate with a non profit group. I think that is why this gets me so worked up. A lot of people don't know what the laws are about service dogs and it makes it hard to get equal treatment. You wouldn't tell a person in a wheelchair that they are not allowed to bring their chair in because it would scuff the floor but then give them a floor dolly with padded wheels to push themselves around on would you? It is the same thing to take someone who is use to working with a service animal and saying well we will do our best to make sure you won't need the animal. It just doesn't work.

It is absolutely correct that they have to accomodate, even at extra cost to the school both children with disabilities. So if the problem was not sharing a particular class then they would have to allow one or the other to take the class somehow outside of the usual classroom setting.

I think installing lights in the school is a good idea, however it is more costly to the school than allowing a dog into the school.

As far as being disruptive to the other children, I think it should be that children learn about the allowances we have to make for others in society that are disabled. All the principal did was teach them how to discriminate instead of coming up with a viable solution. He should never be allowed to work in a school again.

Here is another issue in PA, with the kid having autism and others being allergic to dog.

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it's a violation of the law... PERIOD!

Not allowing a service dog, or 'hearing' dog is in violation of the disability laws. A hearing dog is equipped to 'alert' their owner of people approaching them, of cars around them etc. If there is indeed a student that has an asthmatic condition, this should not affect the deaf student's rights to his/her hearing dog. I agree with the post of someone up above, in this discussion,that questioned the reality of whether or not an asthmatic student would fear going outside at all. Also, what are the policies of this particular school in regards to a seeing eye dog? Do they also refuse their blind students the right to their service dog? Wouldn't that same animal be hazardous for the student with allergies? Most students that suffer from asthma must deal with the realities of possible allergies and asthmatic attacks on a daily basis and are on medication. I strongly believe that the deaf student has every right to a service dog. I personally have an 'alert' dog that helps notify me when someone is knocking on my door. My dog will hear the knocking, run to me, look back at the door, run towards the door, and repeat this until I answer the door. My dog is a huge help to me in this matter.

And I may get blasted for this...(probably will actually)

I completely understand that a guide dog is a right and that this child should have been able to bring him into the school... thats the law.. no argument there.

But personally.. especially after working in an ER and seeing asthma attacks, and people have serious reaction from allergies: I would rather see an uncomfortable child without their guide dog, than one of his classmates convulsing on the floor, blue in the face, dying slowly and painfully as his throat closes up.

Obviously a solution needs to be found. When I worked with SONC (special olympics northern california) there were two children with guide dogs, and one with asthma and a terrible allergy to dogs and cats. The familys (not wanting to leave out either the children with guide dogs or the child with allergies/asthma) got together and came up with a solution that worked for the 3 years that I knew them. Before events or camps, when these children were going to be in the same area. The dogs were taken to a groomer and shaved, (and put in coats if it was cold) and the children just didn't hang out together. They stayed to opposite sides of the room and it seemed to work just fine.

And I am sure there are many other options, what about a way to try and control the pet hair and dander. I actually had a crazy thought come to mind. A simple undergravel filter from a fish tank with a porous blanket on top. As the dog lays on it next to its owner, the majority of pet hair and dander is sucked into the filter.

There are many things that can be done before simply banning the dog. But in the long run, if their truly is someone with that serious of an allergy there, I believe their right to live is more important to someones elses rights to a guide dog.

"You wouldn't tell a person in a wheelchair that they are not allowed to bring their chair in because it would scuff the floor but then give them a floor dolly with padded wheels to push themselves around on would you?"

I agree completely that a cosmetic issue should not take precedence. However, we are comparing scuff marks with death, which I am not sure is a good comparison to make.

Skeeter - That's a very good point. I know this issue is very sensitive - but I really do think there is a solution if we sought for one that was not infringing. It seems to "lazy" to go with a solution which is cheap and infringing.

I agree that children who are blind and deaf need equal access - but I also feel the access should be equal - not one that causes harm or death to a "lesser disability". To just say "a dog has higher preference so other children should face death without warning" doesn't make sense to me. All needs should be weighed and a solution found that manages everybody.

I know someone here said "lights would cost more" but I would rather have it cost more vs go with the cheap solution that kills off the kids with asthma because "they don't matter as much".

http://www.uspharmacist.com/oldformat.as...;article_id=744

"Asthma already accounts for one in six of all pediatric emergency room visits in the U.S., and is the leading cause of ER visits among children under age 5. ... The 9th leading cause of hospitalization nationwide, asthma is a disease that affects all, but places its heaviest burden on families below the poverty line."

About 15 people a day die from asthma. People can develop allergies suddenly, as we all know from food allergies.

I'm just saying that there *are* better solutions out there than dogs - right now - and that people tend not to use them for money reasons. I would rather invest the money into good solutions vs putting money into solutions that are known to cause death.

If someone had a blindness / deafness solution that included having peanut spray suddenly brought into a school and sprayed as the student moved through the school, I would have the same reaction to it. It seems inappropriately death-bringing to the "clean" scholastic environment. Like having a dog brought into a hospital's asthma wing.

Also, in the specific case we're discussing, I found a news report which said - "Cave, a sophomore, has hearing implants but doesn't always wear them because he says they are uncomfortable." So he *can* hear but it makes him uncomfortable to wear them. So we are talking about one kid's discomfort vs other kids' ability to breathe.

I've had this thread stuck in my mind non stop for the past two days. I want to reiterate that I *greatly* support the rights of deaf people, blind people, any people who need help. I have many friends in these conditions and lobby incessantly for them. I want the best solution for them, not a second-best one.

I realize this is an emotional issue and maybe it's just not realistic to talk about it "unbiasedly" in a specific disability support forum. I imagine it would be equally hard if this thread were in the asthma forum.

I will start a separate thread in the civil rights forum to continue the discussion there, where it is completely "disability independent". I personally will leave this thread here alone going forward.

Lisa, thanks for those stats on Asthma because I would have never know that many people die a day from it and can understand the concern.

I noticed we got another artilce posted and it referred to autism.

Personally, I think the schools don't really try to find solutions and that is why parents are always battling against them. I have an autistic brother and the school was just as happy to have him mainstreamed and get the extra "special-ed" money while treating him as if he had behavioral problems instead of developmental problems, than to try to do anything good for him and send him to the special school that was available in the area. So there is an instance where there was an option, but the school took about seven years to long to accept that solution.

My mother's fight was too long and my brother has issues because of it. So while parents are left trying to find solutions and fight the long hard fight, it always seems to come down to the almighty dollar.

The problem also is everyone is thinking in terms of a fire and not in the broaders since of what this dog would actually be responsible for. All of us could here the approaching foot steps of a dangerous situation, a hearing disabled kid can't. We can hear the beeping of the small carts they drive down some school hall ways, or the clamoring wheels of the dolly that the janitor has stacked so high he can't see over it. Or what about a fight breaking out behind your back that you are oblivious to because you can't hear it and it is just inches out of your line of site. Until there is some other way to help someone who is hearing impaired deal with ALL these situations at ALL times service dogs are crucial. The solution may unfortunately be segregating these disabilties. With in a district set aside one school for children who need service dogs, and another for those with extreme allergies. While not ideal at the moment it's seems the best option.

My name is Dana. I joined this forum because I stumbled upon this discussion. I am a severe asthmatic that suffers unpredicatable life threatening asthma attacks that also cause vertigo attacks with loss of balance following the attacks. Last July I got very sick. I was a prisoner in my house trying to care for my 2 and 4 year old sons by myself. After 3 courses of steriods and 2 months of treatment I wasn't getting better. I had been training my belgian sheppard since she was a puppy to do therapy work. One day in late August 2007, I decided to train my dog Storm to be my service dog (asthma alert, mobility assistance, medical assistance). My point here is that I have severe asthma with complications. I am allergic to dogs and cats. Yet I live with 2 cats and a dog. I know that they do not affect me because I've gone to live elsewhere for 3 weeks at a time and I experience no change in my asthma and allergies. I keep my dog and 2 cats clean. They all get a weekly bath to minimise the animal dander. A bath within 48 hours of visiting a hospital is the accepted standard for a therapy dog to be brought into a hospital to visit sick patients and their families. The kids with severe asthma can request a schedule change or new room assignment. Those kids with asthma under the ADA have the right to be accomdated by moving them to another room or another school within the district if another room is not available.
I strongly believe that the hearing alert service dog should be allowed into the classroom and that steps should be taken to minimise the animal dander (as per good service dog ediquitte) and to accomidate everyone's needs. Case in point, I take my service dog to the allergy and asthma doctor's office and he has no problem with her being there. My asthama and allergy doctor thinks that service dogs trained to assist asthmatics is a great idea; and he's no dummy. My doctor is one of the most reccomended names in my city. Service dogs and asthmatics can co-exist without taking the drastic step of shaving the poor dog or banishing it from service. Just so the complaintant knows if they are living in the US, they have grounds to file a complaint with the US Department of Justice. They can also call the police. One call to 911 about a service access denial gets the school in more hot water than it ever bargained for. I called my kid's school principal when I was denied access to my son's classroom to volunteer unless I left my dog at home. I informed them that I had just gotten off the phone with the US Department of Justice and that they had informed me that I had grounds to file a complaint against the school, I was immediately granted access to my child's classroom to volunteer with my service dog at my side.
Dana and Storm (SD) aka The Dynamic Duo

Good for you!