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Joined: Jul 2007
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Parakeet
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Parakeet
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'Nice guy' hat back on. Some of the subjects/events around here have started to get to me, so I had to vent a bit. This time I succinctly kept my rant down to a few well-written sentences.

I do like being nice, if I do have a choice between the nice Duane and the not-so-nice Duane.


I feel better now. Thank you very much. smile smile




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Shark
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Originally Posted By: frieda7
My mom told me that when I was young, and was questioning why have kids. Her viewpoint, paraphrased loosely, was that people who don't have kids are not forced to undergo the dramatic self-sacrifices that parents are, and aren't forced to nurture and care for another human 24/7 whether they feel like it at the moment or not. They are never have that transformational washing over of incredible torrents of love for a helpless being, which immediately calls for putting oneself as a lower priority and another person as the highest priority. Therefore, they don't mature as much, and always will put their own needs first.


What I don't really understand is why it's so important for one person to subordinate themselves to another. After all, having children doesn't make parents into great philanthropists ready to sacrifice themselves for the greater good - just into people who make sacrifices for their offspring, in whom they have a vested interest. There's nothing particularly selfless about that sort of self-sacrifice.

What's wrong with putting your needs first, provided that doing so hurts no-one else? Why must 'maturity' equal self-effacement? This sort of idea is constantly repeated without question, but I don't really get it.


The emperor has no clothes. Choose The Childfree Life!
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Originally Posted By: Manatee

What's wrong with putting your needs first, provided that doing so hurts no-one else? Why must 'maturity' equal self-effacement? This sort of idea is constantly repeated without question, but I don't really get it.


This is what I don't get either! One of my friends has told me several times that I need to have a baby so that I will be a better person. Yet, when I ask her how that would make me better, and how that kind of better is 'better' than a million other things I could do instead, she doesn't have an answer. I'm really getting tired of this dogma from people who haven't even given it a thorough philosophical thought to see if it's actually valid. ...ok rant over smile...


the only thing i want to parent is my great dane!
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Shark
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Parents simply need to justify their choice, and the only way to do so is to try and convince everyone else that they need to make the same choice. If they were really so strong in their conviction that they choose "paradise" they wouldn't really care what anyone else chooses to do.

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Chipmunk
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I appreciate everyone's analysis of my mom's lame opinion. I've always struggled with it.

Here's another thought...if you look around at parents you know, do they really seem like such saintlike people? Some are great, sure, but there are plenty who strike me as selfish, greedy, powertrippers who look at their position as a parent as a status symbol and a way to feel superior over others.

I completely agree that it's small-minded to think one is selfless for choosing to do something that is in their vested interest. So many of these same saints/martyrs are looking ahead at what their child will do for THEM when they're old.

By the way, a response to the "Who will take care of you when you're old" bingo occurred to me:

"What? You want me to hire them already?"


Last edited by frieda7; 03/13/08 07:58 PM.
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Gecko
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To go along with the "self sacrifice" theme, I'm sure we ALL know of someone (usually a mom) who keeps giving and giving and giving until there's nothing left of themselves. That doesn't strike me as really being "selfless", since EVERY case I know of does it out of guilt. They feel guilty if they deny their kids anything, they feel guilty if they take 5 minutes to sit down and have a drink, they feel guilty for EVERYTHING. Doing anything out of guilt negates any "brownie points" you'd get, in my opinion.

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Parakeet
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Parakeet
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But..."It's all worth it in the end..."


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Gecko
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:: bites you ::

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Gecko
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I think it's just that the CF are free to do all sorts of things...I think that's where the selfishness/materialistic argument comes from...but how many people have a child as an "accessory"...or, without thought or planning or to manipulate someone into marriage or to make them whole...etc...
Who does more damage? The people having a child for the above reasons or the CF couple who install a temperature controlled wine room - they work and pay for?
I think the former is selfish because it involves an innocent third party...we are all free to spend our money as we choose - it's not selfish to work and save for a new TV or car...
I make no apologies for living the good life - we all make choices in life...
One of my colleagues just groans when he hears about our next trip or, he's forever complaining he'll die before he can retire/travel...(he has 5 sons)
"I've got 5 kids"...I usually respond..."well Simon, you were there when they were conceived"...He says forlornly..."I know, I know...."
We all have choices in life - you just have to take control and live the life of your choosing. It does take some strength - when I read about the pressure some people are under to have kids for a husband/wife/parents it makes me shudder - we only "go around" once...
Why would anyone allow someone else to dictate THEIR life plan?
Now...what have I done with those plans for our temperature controlled wine room?


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Parakeet
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Parakeet
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Don't worry ... I'm always ready to throw out the 'nice guy' hat when needed. I'm a pussycat most of the time, with a tiger just waiting to come out when needed smile

And I do keep my claws sharpened in my off-time smile smile


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