BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids A question?

Okay, I'm cranky today and this thread just really struck me the wrong way. So I'm going to rant a minute with the understanding that I'm ranting in my own little insulated CF world to other sympathetic CF'ers. I'm not screaming from the rooftops about bad parents nor am I pointing out the disgusting points of their lives in order to make my own life seem more glamourous (as the OP seems to be accusing us of). Because it's not (except that bunnies don't puke). So be warned.

Define JOY.

I guess I was wondering WHY I need something "in [my] life that makes up for the joy of parenthood"...
That very statement implies that something is missing from my life. Frankly, I don't need to "make up" for anything and take offense at the assumption that I do.

If you are asking what makes me "happy" in my life I can provide a laundry list. I do many things that make me fulfilled and happy as a person, wife, daughter, sister, aunt, friend, coworker, employee, volunteer, and citizen. Those bring me JOY.

But by asking me how I "make up" for something that YOU (not I) perceive as missing leads me to think that the laundry list is not what you're after.

And IMO, no one knows the "highest highs and the lowest lows" or experiences real love until they've lived with a house rabbit.

Bleh. Mike, I hate you :-)

Hey, I just realised with this post, I am now a gecko. Moving up the evolutionary chain!

T-Bunny, you have a great point that I missed from reading the original post. I can't find the supposed missing thing either, because ... um ... I didn't realise it was missing. Silly me!!

I am childfree at the moment- more of a phase for me than a life choice. I've gained a lot of knowledge from this site about making asumptions about people, and encouraging young girls to make a choice, instead of pushing motherhood on every female. Seems that a standard converstation topic is, when are you getting married, then when are you going to have a baby? I have been asked this a million times since my wedding. I tell people that we'll get around to it eventually. I can see where it would be more annoying if I answered NEVER because people don't want to hear that. People don't usually even want to hear that I didn't want to get PG while I was living in a trailer rebuilding my house post Katrina. I mean come on!!!

I also like to get ideas on how NOT to parent from the discussions on this board, and how to be a more considerate human being if I do ever have a baby. I have this problem with my dog- I assume everyone thinks she is the cutest thing and is interested in stories about her and wants to pet her.

I'd say this to the original poster- you must have a pretty good image of yourself to come onto a board and ask all the posters to justify themselves to you.

Maybe you could learn a little tolerance from this board the way I have.

So many of the others captured what I think and feel. That's one of the great things about this forum, in so many ways, we are all kindred spirits.

It's obnoxious to ask us to define what joy we have in our lives that makes up for not parenting. I don't have to prove myself to you, or anyone else. But your question brings up an interesting point - the perspective, and the kind of questions that are constantly posed at childfree people.

I don't know of any parents that are constantly asked, "so, why did you have kids, you obviously can't afford them?" That question would be really rude. Some others that I would love to ask parents, but won't, because of something called manners.
Why did you have kids? Do you know that your choice to have children will impact the future of the planet? Do you know that your child's diapers aren't biodegradable? Why did you have kids so late in life, don't you know that you've put your child at risk? Why do you think you should get handouts just because you gave birth? Why did you marry an idiot, have children with him, and now continue to rely on the system that I pay into? Why don't you discipline your child, the rest of us are going to have to work/coexist with them someday.

I am trying to make a point...people are constantly harassing childfree people to have kids, and trying to poke holes in our lifestyles. I've endured the questions, the comments, etc., and it never ends. You don't understand the need for this forum because you are in the majority, and did what most women do, you reproduced. I wouldn't expect you to understand the support this forum provides.

I wonder what you would do if you had a parent begging you to have kids so that the family name could be carried on, because they are bored, or because they want to have grandkids like all of their friends. It's hard enough to think for yourself, and to do what's right for yourself without dealing with the constant disappointment, disapproval and comments from the pack of parents.

Sometimes I talk about what is going on in my life, but it's most an aside. I don't need consolation for the fact that my life with my husband is wonderful. We come here when we are having a bad day, or to talk about things that we've collectively noticed in society. Like the fact that we get to pick up the slack for parents at work when they leave early to care for their children, how adult movies and restaurants are often overpopulated with misbehaving children, the fact that we get to pay taxes and pay into a system that rewards irresponsible breeding. Things like that. We can't talk about these things in the outside world, because we are viewed and treated as monsters for having a negative word to say about God's gift to the world.

We post negative stories about children because we are in touch with what the package includes. All we have to do is turn on the tv if we want to see what kids are supposedly like. We know that the commercials don't show the whole story. And, these stories might save someone that is on the fence from having a child they don't really want. It seems odd that someone that doesn't really want a child would have one, but it happens all the time because of peer pressure. This forum is a counter to the rampant peer pressure we receive in the outside world. It's not that we really want kids (most of us), but when parenting is shoved down our throats from birth, and people tell us we are wrong for being true to ourselves, we can have moments of doubt, and need someone to talk to.

You say we are in need of validation. Correct! Our accomplishments are often ignored, while people praise parents just for giving birth. This hurts. Most of the people on this forum are very accomplished, smart, and can think for themselves. All of the people on this forum are honest with themselves. And they are often treated like they are "less than" because they've chosen to do other things with their life.

I'm thinking you would have said the same about groups of women and blacks gathering to try to figure out how to make things better for themselves. I'm sure there were some negative conversations in these groups, about the establishment, men, and society in general. But they really just wanted to be treated like everyone else. That's what we want, too.

I'm not trying to imply we are treated as badly as these other groups. But I do think being childfree is an extension of the women's movement, which gave women more freedom. Society is afraid of anything new or different. It's only recently, because of reliable birth control, that women have been able to exercise control over their reproductive choices. So I would argue that it isn't the childfree that are afraid, but we are reacting to the fear we seem to cause in other people.

Participating on this forum has enabled me to better understand the dynamics of a brainwashed society, and the struggles of others. I hope you will learn something too and stop being such a self satisfied parent.

AND, I can tell you that I do have the "joy" of a child in my life. And amazingly, I didn't have to give birth to him to love him. I am EXTREMELY close to my nephew. For the first couple of years of his life, I saw him just about every day. I love him to pieces, and would do anything for him. He has brought a lot of joy to my life, but so have my hobbies, such as fundraising, freelance writing and a variety of other things. Joy is not restricted to parenting, I can tell you.

I am new here, but I know I enjoy reading the threads here about bad parents because, quite frankly, I am SICK of everyone always acting like parenting is some beautiful divine thing. I am SICK of being marginalized for being a woman in her 30s who happens to not have any kids. So I don't go around spewing stuff about bad parents everywhere in my life, but I do plan on coming here to vent.

See, we are being asked why, if we are so happy with our lives, do we come here to complain... but I have to wonder why, if parenting is such a "joy", that anyone needs to come here and ask us about why we do what we do. If they are so happy they'd just think we were pathetic losers and click on another thread about getting poop stains out of fabric or whatever.

BTW, I think the OP meant well, but claiming that only parents can lay claim to the "highest highs and lowest lows" or whatever is arrogant and ANNOYING. I AM SICK OF HEARING THAT I'M "MISSING OUT" or whatever because I am not a parent. Sick to death of it.

And the whole thing about us needing to find stuff to fill up the hole that is left by us not being parents -- what hole? What exactly is missing from my life?

My bf's sister thinks she's the Earth Mother and acts like she feels her kid gives her meaning and definition to her life, and all I can think is, "God, I had no idea she was so empty before she had that kid."

I enjoy everything I do, because I WANT to do it. I have a good computer job that I love to go to every day. I have a lovely wife who loves me, who does her own at home online business. I enjoy coming home and not worrying about children. I enjoy watching a movie with my wife. I enjoy watching the Red Wings on TV with my wife, which is something I learned from her. I enjoy a good snuggle. I enjoy doing NOTHING with my wife. I enjoy traveling with my wife. I enjoy coming home from a workday to a hug and a kiss. I enjoy sleeping in on weekends. I enjoy taking an occasional Friday off of work and just spending it at home with my wife. I enjoy a nice, freshly popped bucket of popcorn from our 8 oz popcorn machine. I enjoy the sweet and cold taste of a scoop of ice cream after a good meal every now and then. I enjoy going out on drives in the countryside just for the heck of it. I enjoy photography as a hobby. I enjoy going to restaurants and trying new stuff just for the heck of it. I enjoy going out on weekends, just picking a city or county or tourist destination within a two or so hour drive from our house, going there for the day, maybe staying there overnight, and coming back. I also enjoy the company of others, which includes TRUE parents who care, with their caring and cute children. I also enjoy that they aren't coming home with me to stay 24/7. That is my life. In other words, I ENJOY MY LIFE AS IT IS.

My life does not include, nor did it have, nor will it ever have, a desire for me to become a parent. My reasons are long and varied, as documented elsewhere on this board. Simply put, I am not a parent, because "I CHOOSE NOT TO BE A PARENT." It is that simple. I need no other justification other than that to anyone. Is this justification easy? No. I have disappointed people in my life because of my POV, but that is my life. By no means have I suffered as much as others in this forum do in their own day to day lives, with their child-free desire, but I do truly understand.

Does this upset you? Tough. I am not beholden to anyone but myself and my wife as to our own definition of happiness and JOY.

I will let my tagline, which was one of the first comments I made on this board, be my final answer to you.

"Makes up for the joy of parenting?" First and foremost, not everyone is parent material, not everyone enjoys the same things; therefore, not everyone would find parenting a joyous job. I enjoy riding an ATV and getting all muddy and dirty, just because other women may not enjoy this, does that mean they are missing out on the joys of life? I think not.

I love my life! My husband and I each work fufilling, full-time jobs and we still have plenty of time for hobbies. My husband is a bit of a gear-head, so he spends his free time in the garage; I love to read and do Yoga.

Also, since we don't have to spend our money on children, we are able to take a nice vacation every year. If we want to head out of town for a long weekend at a moment's notice, we can because we don't have to worry about childcare arrangements.

Everyone else's responses have been spot on, so I was thinking of passing on this, but what the heck.

Having kids is a HUGE decision, not to be entered into lightly, and every potential parent should think it through carefully and deeply, and not just plunge into it.

But, haven't you noticed? Most people actually don't think too much much about, and just do it because "it's what you do." Deny it all you want, but I don't buy it that most parents think carefully and deeply about the decision. I've discussed with hundreds of parents I've met and been friends with over the years, and that is the conclusion I've come to. Excuse me for putting a little more thought into it. That is why I'm here.

Heck, I have been debating all the aspects of adding a puppy to our house- for the last FOUR YEARS ! - and still have not acted on it because I am not clear this would work for us.

Well, what are you doing with your life to make up for not having a puppy? Also, just for the record, a puppy is a puppy for a very short time, so maybe you should consider adding a DOG to your house, which is a more long term perspective.

Having said that- I notice most of the threads here seem to be less about the happiness within your lives, and more about the misery in parent's lives. Excerpts from things parents have written can certainly be found that make parenthood sound like a slow death! But then again, excerpts can also be found showing parenthood to be the greatest joy imaginable! it all depends on what point of view one wants to convey.
I sense that focusing on these negative " confessions" or on negative examples of parents serves mostly to reassure yourselves that your opinion is " right" or " justified".

It seems to me like you've focused most of your attention onto our threads about the websites "truemomconfession" and "truedadconfessions." I think you'd get a better perspective on the topics we cover if you read a little more deeply. There is a reason that those websites are getting a lot of attention, not just from us, but from parents. It is one of the taboos in our society to admit that you regret parenting. There is good reason for that...it's damaging to the innocent people you create to even chance they would find out you feel that way. Well, some of us feel like we need to look at it from all sides before we make such a big decision. I understand that is threatening to parents, but that's why you have your own forum, and this one is for non-parents.

As I said, if it is right for you IT IS RIGHT! It is made no less right by my loving parenthood- it is made no MORE right by these "parental confessions".

I know you're trying to be fair in your post, but this is not really relevant. You say earlier that the decision to become a parent should be thought about deeply and carefully, yet then you don't think we should be discussing it from all sides? We want to explore the issue and have an honest discussion. Too bad if you can't handle that.

I guess what I am wondering is- if you are in fact at peace with your decision, why the neccesity to be almosthisclose to bashing parents - something I see is against the terms of service for this forum.

This is going off the charts into the realm of ridiculous. People are very courteous here. Over and over we say that there are very good parents in the world, and very bad ones. That is the truth, and we're not here to gloss over it. I think you're focusing on the negative side of our discussions, and looking at it with a strong bias, although you don't realize it. As you say, parenting is an incredibly hard job. Rewarding? In most cases maybe, sure, but so are a lot of things. Discussing the downsides of the choice is our right, and is also known as "thinking deeply."

It takes away from the credibility of the " I am happy with my stance and decision" image you all wish to convey, and makes those of you who contribute such posts seem to be seeking validation.

I have no interest in proving my credibility and conveying an image. This is a forum for people without kids to post and read, and you are the one who is out of place here. Why would you assume we are trying to convey a false image to someone who isn't even supposed to be here? YOU'RE the one who came HERE...we didn't come to you seeking YOUR approval.

I'm here because I know very few people without children who are able to have an honest discussion with me about it. When I try and talk to my family and friends who are parents, they constantly try and tear me down and express pity and concern for me because I don't have children. You obviously have no understanding of the wide range of reasons people are here. I have long been undecided about the whole issue, so am trying to explore it and discuss it with openminded people who don't judge me. It's called a supportive environment, and frankly, I think you've missed a lot of the points and need to read a little deeper before you rush to judgment about who were are and why we are here.

If you are Happy To Be Childfree, then that happiness SHOULD derive from the life you are able to lead without children. If it is based on the avoidance of the misery expressed by a few well chosen excerpts posted here ( the confessions and so on ) - that is a funny way to obtain a sense of happiness and satisfaction.

Has the term "infertility" ever crossed your mind? Has it ever occurred to you that at least a few people here are childfree by circumstance, and perhaps, PERHAPS, some people reading this struggle with it and have mixed feelings. Reread your post while considering that there are people here who don't have kids for other reasons besides their own choice, and I think you might realize why your post is offensive. I'm not trying to prove anything...I'm here for support and understanding.

Share with me what you do in your life that makes up for the joy of parenthood, and I will respect that completely.

There are many threads in this forum where we talk about our lives, and you already have ignored them to focus on certain other threads. Why should we have to keep repeating ourselves to try and gain your respect? If you're not willing to read previous threads about subjects that allegedly arouse your curiousity, you obviously aren't really interested in our lives, and are just writing out of anger because you feel like your lifestyle is being attacked.

Cite how Joe Brown and Sue Smith are at their wits ends with their kids, and I will only perceive that as a kind of hollow vindication for a decison perhaps based less on how great your life REALLY is- but how afraid you are for how your life MIGHT be if you became parents. That is how it comes across anyway...

Why is it against your rules to talk about our fears of what our lives would be like as parents? I think that's perfectly okay. You want deep thinking, yet only positive comments allowed? Saying how it "comes across" is an indication to me that you've skimmed through our forum rather quickly with a closed mind.

In looking at her profile and previous posts I discovered she only has one child who is 10 years old. Her occupation is listed as mom. It doesn't look like she has much going on in her life since the husband is probably away at work and her son at school most the day. Thus plenty of time to read our forums and pass judgment on us. I was expecting someone with at least 3 kids to be writing such a post. Why only one child if it's such a great experience?

Ya know, I was just going to hit the troll with a well aimed recipe - but I'm glad we got started on this, because this thread rocks!! Having so many kindred spirits is really uplifting. I love you guys!! (sob sob ... I LOVE you guys!!)