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But Jeanette, if you witnessed someone committing child abuse, for example, would you remain neutral and only appreciate the good?

I hope everyone here does not mind that i join in the discussion. I find this very interesting.

In my opinion, theories and doctrine are sometimes very unrelated to everyday life and doing what is right. I think that lofty religious thoughts can in themselves, lead a person astray and away from God if they miss the main point of their religion. I think this is true of all religions. Look at how many wars on earth were religiously motivated, including the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and many others around the world this minute. Many people have been led astray by their doctrine because they are only looking at life by religious theory and they're missing the point and twisting the meaning of their religion's doctrine.

I have found that in virtually every synague, church, mosque, temple, etc. that there is at least one person who as the Japanese say, "has too much tea." It is sometimes amusing how they inflate themselves, but they at times cause a lot of hurt to others and then it is not so funny. They know all the details of their religion and pursue it eagerly and appear very proper, but they understand little of the spirit of it and don't really practice the essence of their faith. They are by nature, social climbers. They are trying to socially climb in their religion by claiming to know their religion better than others, that they are more enlightened, and by campaigning for authority.

I worked in an Episcopal church for several years as a secretary. I was replacing a man who had manuvered his way to be the previous secretary. He was a member of that church, and he liked being the secretary because it allowed him to know everyone's private business, and he would then gossip to his favorites and cause unrest and polarization in the community that attended that church. When i took over as secretary i discovered many things about that man, including that he would receive mail titling him as "Reverend." He was not a reverend but that suited his ego and i'm sure he encouraged the mistake. He had applied for and was rejected from seminary and even as deacon, but that didn't stop him from assuming as many duties as he could usurp and belaboring and undermining the good works that others were trying to do.

I saw this at the Buddhist temple as well. Usually there are a couple of pups (young people), all starry-eyed and eager, but there is also usually one older individual who tries to be the Most Important Person, but who lacks true kindness to others.

I couldn't care less if someone wishes to play this game most of the time, but i draw the line when they harrass or hurt others, or drive them away from something they enjoy or when they spoil something that was good. There is a saying, "Silence is the voice of consent." Never was this more apparent than in Europe when there were death camps that so many pretended were not there. In my opinion, it is wrong to "just get along" with wrong doing and allow it to continue.

Thank you Alexandra and everyone who is contributing to this subject

It is very sad in Burma but we must remember this is part of their evolution and struggle. Yes - whatever can be done from outside should be but their path is to be walked by them- based on thoughts from within, the opposing forces and the society they find their souls in.

Bearing in mind there are THREE "universes" to negotiate as we walk our path - our own "inner space"; others "inner space" and the "material world" - the first we can learn to control through meditation, self control, balance and only through example can we possibly influence others in a positive way - only if they notice - and then that's because they choose to.

As lightworkers - as many are on here - all we can do is simply open our hearts and let love be focused on Burma and other areas of conflict but we must not "force" a conclusion or solution for in doing so we take away the right for others to learn, evolve, have their place on the earth.

It is a very fine balance where our egos must not be allowed to feel anger, pity or any emotion. love - simple and pure is the only power force we can emenate and we all know how to do this.

Remember - what is right to one person isn't necessarily right for another. Judgement takes place elsewhere.

Alexandra - you will find a job and I am sure you will enjoy the new chapter in your life and realise the change was something your soul wanted. All becomes clear as we step forward and greet the universe with its gifts.

In kindness, love and light,

Maria
www.butterflyhealer.com

Dearest Hollyelise,
Great to have you with us, and thank you so much for joining in!

Just taking the two points you have made above, and responding to these specifically....
Remember please, that this is just my take and view.... not written in stone, and I do not purport to speak on behalf of anyone else....

I completely agree and see your point with regard to theories and doctrine being set apart form everyday life.
For my own part, this is why I have chosen the Buddhist Path as my personal calling. Buddhism is to do with everyday life. There is no Greater Power outside of me to whom I can hand responsibility, who I can blame, or whom I can beseech for salvation. The buck begins - and stops - here, with me.
It's down to me. And the only thing I can make an Effort every day, to do, is not only to learn more about the path, to follow it and to walk it. These are commendable, but they are not enough.
I have to be determined to LIVE it. in short, it's putting my money where my mouth is. It's WALKING the TALK.

With regard to the Oler self-considered VIP.... Remember that even the mightiest person in any faith, Doctrine or creed, is just a simple human being. Granted, they perhaps should, in our own view, "know better", but they are just as subject to the Cravings, Desires and Sffering of any human being. They are just as open to temptation, but (understandably) more expose to criticism if they reveal an all too human chink in their armour. Consider that even Mother teresa, having devoted her entire life to altruism and charity, was as fallible as anyone, and had deep questions and doubts regarding her own faith....

I recently read a book where the author participated in a monastic retreat. A good friend gave him a fairly ornate robe as a gift, to use as a form of spiritual outer garb. When the time came for him to leave, one of the monks - a man dedicating his life to abstinence, reserve, poverty and discipline - asked him for this robe, because the monk liked it so much, and as this guy wasn't actually be ordained as a monk, he wouldn't need it any more, would he....?
So even a monk, dedicating his life to celibacy, devotion, prayer and solitude - had a craving for a bit of materialistic luxury!

So whilst I completely understand what you are saying, and can see where you're coming from, I personally like to think of all people as equalks without expectation. They are no better - or worse - than I am......

Incidentally, you asked Jeanette a specific question as first item of your post. I have my own view in answer to this point, but I think it fair to permit Jeanette to respond first, as it was a specific question....

First of all, thank you Maria, for your extremely kind good wishes.

The only comment I would make to your excellent and very clearly well-thought-out post is that -
The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what our perception of a person's circumstances are... All sentient beings deserve to be treated with equal Consideration, Dignity Compassion and Love. ("tough" sometimes - and it might well be just as tough for the 'giver' as it is for the 'receiver'!)
My partner and I were discussing "Hungry Ghosts" and he proposed that the suffering was relative to the loss or absence of whatever the "ghost" was hungry for.
I disagree...
A lone vagabond, finding a hole in his one and only cooking pot, is suffering just as much as the millionaire who finds his prized vintage car is going to cost an absolute fortune to repair.
Both experience the despair and helplessness of being faced with an immediate tragedy. The suffering is relative to the individual's perception.
I completely take your point on the collective karma Burma is experiencing. I can also accept the Dalai Lama's own stance on Tibet's phase of suffering...
Karmic complexities are too numerate for me to fathom - I'm not even going to try! But that does not, obviously, exempt us from practising Compassion to our utmost, for whomsoever is concerned. And as you rightly point out, when our Negative Ego starts claiming ownership of the suffering, that's when our Minds become clouded with judgements, evaluations and criticisms.
Detachment can be a real bummer sometimes - !!

Holly,

Pl. stop wasting your time and energy about why three members left Bella.

IRRELEVANT

cd, what are you talking about? Holly is asking good questions and expressing her opinions. No one is upset about anything.

Obviously, I would stop it, I have stopped someone abusing a child before. This would be another human suffering.



Everyone is welcome as long as we are all respectful towards each other. I will edit posts if I feel they are unnecessary. Ask anything at any time. Someone will try to answer you.



Excellent point Holly. It amazes me at times when ones religious texts/scriptures/teachings obviously mean one thing but they twist those words and act upon their obvious misconstrued(sorry spelling?) thoughts.




Kind of like the people with the mentallity that they will do whatever they want during the week because on Sunday they will be forgiven.



Yes there is always a bad apple in every bag. No one is perfect and it is a shame that sometimes things get way out of hand before the person is stopped as you said about your previous secretary.



Or one of my favorite sayings is "Silence isn't always golden". Too many times people don't speak up for what is right and what is wrong, even today! Thank you for engaging in conversation!

cd, i believe you are misunderstanding something holly said. No one is here arguing she was talking about something completely different. Before you try to start an argument or try to point fingers at someone, make sure you understand what someone is talking about first. I don't mean to single you out but many people have done this, jumped to conclusion, started unnecessary arguments, and people end up with their feelings hurt or they jump all over other members here. Enough is enough.

Sorry Jeanette if you feel I did anything wrong.

You can ask Holly, if I was wrong or not?

My apologies.