BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids My wife wants kids, but I'm having 2nd thoughts

A cautionary tale to Confused Husband and others who are in similar straights (she wants a baby, he doesn't).

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Dear Confused Husband

Mostly, I have a lot of questions:
Why does she want children? Are they good reasons? (Personally I can't think of any good reasons for having children when there are so many existing kids who need homes)
Is it a biological urge only? Or is there some other reason?
Does she want a child because she has been brainwashed by society into thinking she won�t be a woman if she doesn�t have a child?
Is she prepared to accept the child and the additional work/$ required if something is medically wrong with the child?
You are very busy with work� is she really ready to shoulder the lion�s share of the child rearing duties?
Does she have the TIME to care for a child each day?
Is she ready to give up some/all of her hobbies to make the time to look after a child?
Is she ready for the responsibility of a child that you have to look after 24/7 for many many years?
Is she ready for the lack of sleep, and the reality of not being able to take a shower, go to the bathroom or go anywhere without the child (or finding a babysitter)?
If you both have to work, does she think that growing up in daycare would be a happy childhood?
Does she realize that there is NO guarantee the child will love her or even have much to do with her once they are grown up?

Discuss the many benefits of a childfree life - is she aware that there is a CHOICE, and that there are lots of great reasons to remain childfree?
Look at ALL of the plusses and minuses of having children vs not having children. Do the benefits of having a child outweigh the costs for you?
If she loves little kids that much, maybe she could work in a daycare a couple days a week?
I believe there have been a number of recent studies that show that childfree individuals are actually HAPPIER and less stressed that people with children. Make sure she is aware of these studies.

It sounds like you have a good loving marriage. Is she willing to risk the marriage for a child? Children put MANY additional stresses on marriage � is she ready for that? You might have kids, and then get a divorce later due to the additional stress/time constraints. Remember, the child will move out eventually, and she might be left alone.

Ultimately, if she values a currently NONEXISTENT child more than she values YOU, her real life husband who gives her love TODAY, and will be with her until one of you dies� then I think that you will be better off splitting up. Everyone should be with someone who puts them FIRST on their priority list - not second after the kids.
Best wishes. Keep us posted.

Well said, Lisa. It certainly got my attention. This is a little off Confused Husband's topic, but still somewhat connected. My boyfriend and I have been seeing each other for six months, and your sentiment above is something very real in our relationship. We're very different people in many ways (age, hobbies, downtime, temperment, backgrounds, to name a few), but we enjoy each other SO much and have such a great time together, getting closer each month. We sometimes surface what you said above -- we wonder if, because of this still new relationship and its lingering honeymoon phase, we overlook some fundamental things that might come back around to bite us.

How does this apply to being CF? Here's the confession: Because I didn't make my CF decision 100% until after we started dating. His kids are grown and he's snipped, and he asked me early in the relationship if I would ever want kids. I'm 36 now, and I've often wondered if I never started dating him, would I still have recently made such a final decision on the matter? Oooooh, good question, huh.

It was actually shortly after he asked me that question when I found this forum, read Childfree and Loving It, and started really weighing what I like about my life now and what I want in the future. I think if having a baby was really in my cards, part of my desires and things I want out of life, I would have either had the kid by now or would have immediately rejected said boyfriend and started some hot pursuit for a father/sperm donor. But instead, it took me all of about 4 days to go from Gee, I don't know...maybe it would be cool to make a Mini-Me to Not just no, hell no, and thank God the stork never stopped by my house.

Anyway, your thought above, Lisa, is something to still ponder, even though my CF decision is solid. There are many things we either don't see or ignore in those rose-colored glasses when we fall in love. You suggested a good point to Confused Husband about their own dating period.

Friends,

One of the common themes I have read in this thread and in others on this forum is that people seek and find affiliation in different ways. The need to connect, or bond, or fellowship (insert synonym of choice) with other people on a deep, personal level is a fairly universal human trait that most of us on this board can relate to.

Some people become convinced that they will fulfill this need through parenthood. Some people become convinced that marriage will fulfill this need for them (a subset of those, I'm sure, discover that their marriage isn't fulfilling that need, so they decide to "Take it to the next level" by becoming parents in hopes that kids will do the job). These are just 2 common avenues that people pursue in our society on their quest for affiliation, although there are certainly manyothers (e.g. activity partners, time with coworkers, internet relationships, religious affiliations, athletics, etc.).

I am not immune to this primal urge to "affiliate." In fact, this need is near the heart of my current struggle. Although many others on this message board offer words of encouragement for those seeking CF partners, I read such words with a grain of salt. For the average person with a tilt toward CF, finding a like-minded partner in love sounds to be a much greater challenge than finding a non-CF-minded partner--a challenge that is not impossible, but in general requires much patience and greater proactivity.

However, and here comes the punchline, for me that challenge is immensely compounded by the fact that I am a pretty antisocial guy (not antisocial in the "I dislike people" sense, but antisocial in the "I am very shy and less conversational than over 90% of the population" sense). Although I have many great qualities which women have found attractive over the years, my asocial personality has been crippling to my dating pool. It takes a pretty special lady for me to feel comfortable around her and enjoy our relationship on the personality level. After over a decade of dating, I finally found someone--my wife--whom I mesh with beautifully on this personality level. Although that personality criteria is weighted so highly for me, this woman excels at many other criteria which are important to me in selecting a lifelong partner.

Thus, even as I grow more convinced that children will alter my happiness for the worse, part of me believes that this is a necessary sacrifice because my overall happiness depends on it. To put this in mathematical terms: if having kids is worth -3 happiness points, but being with my wife is worth +7, then I come out ahead +4 points (-3 + +7 = +4). If I were to find a different woman who supported CF, then she might be +3 happiness points: 0 + +3 = +3 (worse than +4).

I wish that I was more social so that my opportunities for healthy affiliation were greater, but that is a problem I have worked on (e.g. counseling) for many years now without much change or prospect for change.

Don't get the wrong idea: I am not a "dependent" sort of person, and my self-esteem is descent (although not stellar). I am pretty comfortable with myself and confident being independent. Yet, like anybody else, I am happier when I experience comfortable, healthy connections with others.

Hopefully this helps you all understand my situation a little better now.

Any new thoughts / advice given this added disclosure?

Surely there must be other guys in a similar situation: feeling that parenthood is a necessary sacrifice toward a quality marriage, yet feeling simultaneously that this kind of sacrifice is wrong and depressing. Womens' perspectives would be equally appreciated.

Thanks,
Confused_Husband

I just can't believe this. It's so incredibly selfish. You made a commitment to this woman. You told her she would bear your children and as a result she trusted you and she got up there and went through a marriage ceremony in which you promised to Love Her Forever, Death Do You Part. You promised her. She promised you she would love you forever - do you understand how rare that is? Are you braindead to the trust involved in making that commitment? She has entrusted you with her heart, her very soul - the most precious thing a person can offer to anyone - she gave it to you.
She told you what the bargain was. She didn't pounce this on you after the honeymoon was over. You GOT the honeymoon because you told her you would do whatever it took to have her by your side the rest of your life. You told her you appreciated and returned her love.
Now you have the nerve to want to change your mind?
This woman has lost her best years to you. Do you not understand what that means? She trusts you. She has let her beauty age, and over time it is harder and harder to find a mate to sync minds with.
You want to destroy this woman you promised to love forever?
Does no one on Earth take marriage seriously anymore? Does no one understand that when they make a commitment, when they promise someone they will spend their life with them - In Good Times and In Bad - it means just that?

You are considering breaking "the love of your life"'s heart. You imagine she'll get out there and date again and find another man to have kids with? What? Do you have no passion or love in your relationship? If my husband left me it would shake me to my core. I would fall to pieces. It would hurt me so deeply I could not possibly maintain any semblance of a normal life let alone imagine "dating other men to find a partner for my offspring". You've taken her best years, she'll wither with this devastation, and then she'll be alone and she'll lament her one chance at having the family... the family she was promised.

Oh, boohoo, you won't have any "me time" - well you should have thought about that before you promised your life to her.
Period. The end.

Or, you are a LIAR.

he made the CHOICE when he married her. you don't do that do someone. it's cruel. he promised her he would be the father of her children if she married him. he doesn't get all her best years and then "change his mind".
Does anyone understand the concept of marriage here?

she explained her stance very clearly prior to his making a commitment for life. THAT is the issue. Not "CF or not" - I can't believe you'd say "he'd be better off" forgetting about his marriage and his commitments. You can't be so adamant about not having kids (and btw I'm CF and married) that you don't respect your marriage vows.

Catherine, I am confused about a number of things. First off, you say that Confused Husband has "taken her best years". His wife is around 30. So am I. Frankly, I find my life to be getting better and better. I am sorry you are not having the same experience.

You don't know Confused Husband's wife. Perhaps she has more strength than those you know. While I would certainly be heartbroken if my husband ended our marriage, I would not "wither with devastation". And this is not her "one chance at having a family". She and her husband ARE a family. And if that is not the family she wants, then she has other options. IF she were unable to find a mate before her childbearing years ended, there is adoption.

My guess is that Confused Husband was not that old when he got married. If he made that promise when he was 38, then yes, he should have known himself better. But I changed quite a bit in my twenties. Many people do.

I could go on forever, your post made me very angry. How many of us in our younger years just assumed we would have kids because that is what you did? Who knew there was a choice?

If Confused Husband cannot go into fatherhood with 100% enthusiasm, then how will this effect the relationship he has with his wife and the children? Is that REALLY the best option?

Only Confused Husband can figure that out himself. And I credit him with exploring his feelings.

Catherine - I think if one person in the relationship doesn't want kids, then I think it's better that they don't have them. You don't want one parent resenting the child/spouse. Marriage is a commitment, yes, and it is a partnership and both people have to compromise. However, that doesn't mean that marriage is a bargain. Each person in that marriage thought the other person would change their mind when it comes to kids. Why is it more important for him to honor HIS vow and give her kids than for her to honor HER vow and not have kids? And if his wife thinks that having children is more important than respecting her spouse, then she's not following her vows for better or for worse. Maybe I missed something, did she tell him that she would only marry him if he gave her kids? This isn't the middle ages, and marriage is not a bargain.

Confused_Husband: The more I read what you write, the more I think that maybe you are the one who needs counseling. Since counseling doesn't help, I guess you are stuck. You seem to have already made a decision for yourself and seem to be playing a martyr, so you don't need our advice. You have choices, and if you're too afraid to make those choices because you're antisocial and you don't want to discuss this with your wife or whatever, then I guess you are stuck with having a kid and it's not your wife's fault. If you stay with your wife, you don't HAVE to have a child. I don't understand why you can't discuss this with her or try therapy. If she WON'T listen to you, how good is your marriage in the first place? And if she absolutely thinks that a child is more important than you, then your situation will only worsen when the child arrives. And how fair is it to stay with your wife because you're not so good with asking women out? I'm sure that makes her feel great.

I think that you decided long ago that you were going to have a child with her, as you don't want to listen to any of the advice anyone is giving you. You can only say why that advice won't work. I think you somehow want us to validate your decision, and since we aren't, you keep telling us why it's your only choice. Well, you have my blessing. Give your wife the child she wants. Since you've backed yourself into a corner, it really is your only option.

My husband wants a child, I don't. He keeps telling me that I am more important. He knew when he asked me to marry him that I didn't want children. I knew he wanted children. As far as I can see, even though he thinks I'll change my mind, he thinks that having me is more important than having kids. However, it doesn't work the other way around. I can't say that my husband is more important than NOT having kids. Because kids change EVERYTHING. And I'd be unhappy with kids.

What matters in a childless marriage is the happiness of both spouses. If both are happy with the way things are now, why change them and take the chance that one would be unhappy? And if one spouse needs a child so badly in order to be happy, then I'd say that couple needs counseling because something is lacking.

I really wanted a second dog. However, my happiness didn't hinge on having a second dog. If we hadn't found one we liked, I'd have been a little disappointed, but it wouldn't have made me miserable for the rest of my life. And if my husband had said, "hey, I think I'd be unhappy if we had a second dog," we wouldn't have gotten one. Because if we had, he would resent that animal to some degree.

I feel a little for confused_husband's wife. If she is still expecting to start a family like she has all along (as was discussed before marriage and during marriage) and then this whole array of feelings is popped on her, she'll feel betrayed. That being said, I don't think CH should just shut his mouth and be "up for the ride". This topic definitely needs to be discussed with a third party present, IMO.

I completely agree with Ingilbert's comments about the happiness of both spouses being most important and that if both parties aren't all for having a child, one should not be produced.

Even though I don't feel that I have ever experienced the innate desire to have children of my own, I think there is more to it than to compare it to getting a dog. I believe there are women out there who possibly feel an actual, physical yearning to reproduce. Maybe it's that feeling people are talking about when they tell me, "You'll change your mind about wanting kids one day."

If the opportunity to have kids was just up and taken away from her, I don't know that she could just get rid of that yearning. It could take a LONG time for her to get her feelings about the situation in control - if she ever could - and it would also put a tremendous strain on the marriage.

And so, I guess I leave you with probably nothing that hasn't been said. Maybe not only marital counseling, but also individual counseling would be helpful for each of you to work out your deep down feelings about the matter.

Yeah, the dog analogy wasn't the best, but I guess the point is that we ALL want things - but does our happiness hinge on if we get them or not? I think if you are fulfilled enough as a person, you will be okay with not having your "dreams" come true. Yes, it's disappointing, but NOTHING should be a be-all and end-all.

I guess I don't understand the biological yearning for children. Good! Less for me to worry about.