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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,438
Chipmunk
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Chipmunk
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,438 |
If you can't do that, try to go through a weekend where you imagine you had a baby that needed to be fed on a regular schedule, have the diaper changed, having to negotiate for time alone with your husband so you can go to the store, work, etc. Set multiple alarms in the middle of the night every 3 hours so you are woken up for a week, to simulate the lack of sleep you will experience as a mother and father with an infant. Also remember, you can't just go out to dinner, shopping, anymore on a whim -- someone has to take care of the child at all times. Duane I've been doing this mental process a lot in trying to figure out the answer myself, and agree that it helps. When I'm involved in an activity and enjoying it, I'll ask myself, "What would this situation be like if I had a child right now?" I try and imagine where I'd be, and whether I could even be doing that if I had a baby. Then I imagine it with children of different ages. Sometimes I can see where "it" could be fit in, but many times I realize I wouldn't be able to be doing that. I know I would feel deprived if I wasn't able to have spontaneous experiences like even something as simple as hanging out, relaxing with friends, and talking (without having to chase someone around, discipline them, listen to them whining that they're bored, etc.). Sure, my time would be full of different experiences that I can't even imagine, but since I don't generally find myself volunteering to care for children for fun and satisfaction, it seems like a huge leap to assume I'd find utter fulfillment in doing it 24/7 for decades. I feel pretty fulfilled, as it is, so why take such a huge gamble?
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 709
Gecko
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Gecko
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 709 |
Great qualitative reply from Duane! And I agree with other people's advice on "Don't have a baby unless you're 100% sure." Think about it: Would you want to be the child of a parent who wasn't sure if she wanted you or not?  Always remember the third life you're affecting, because that's the one who is most important -- the one who doesn't have a choice, and the one you're committing to caring for for the rest of his/her life. As far as I was concerned, I didn't want to have a child unless I was prepared to sacrifice my own needs and desires for his/hers; I didn't want to make a life I wasn't 100% committed to supporting, and I could SO see myself being neglectful to that child out of selfishness from time to time. I'm 36 and am loving the continued journey of my own discovery. I also LOVE to travel, and am preparing to go back into outside sales so I can incorporate travel into my daily life (and bring in some serious cashola to support my SCUBA hobby). I'm writing a book, and I have several different crafts I fool around with. I go through phases of laziness where I don't feel like doing laundry or cleaning the house, and that's perfectly okay now, but it wouldn't be with kids. When others are changing diapers, breastfeeding, praying the kid takes a nap -- I'm having brunch, SCUBA diving, attending happy hours and dinner cruises. Or sometimes I'm napping.  I thought growing up and through my 20s that I'd want children. Thank God that I didn't because I'd be a single mom now, and there is no way in hell I could deal with that. Given the way my life has gone and that I've learned to be so appreciative and pampered by my own private time, there is no way in the world I'd have kids now. I think the only people who should have kids are the ones who are 100% sure about it and want nothing more at that time. Good luck to you and your husband; communication will be key!
"Men and women think that it is necessary to have children. It is not. It is their animal nature and social custom, rather than reason, which makes them believe that this is a necessity." --Democritus
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,344
Chipmunk
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Chipmunk
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,344 |
...but since I don't generally find myself volunteering to care for children for fun and satisfaction, it seems like a huge leap to assume I'd find utter fulfillment in doing it 24/7 for decades. Yeah, really! That's a good way to look at it. It isn't one of my interests, period. I mean, we are taking my nephew to see that new Disney movie about the rat tonight, but he isn't a "hobby." I like spending time with him, but not around the clock. ~happy aunt
Save your own life - don't have kids!
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Chipmunk
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Chipmunk
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,438 |
Great qualitative reply from Duane! And I agree with other people's advice on "Don't have a baby unless you're 100% sure." Think about it: Would you want to be the child of a parent who wasn't sure if she wanted you or not?  Always remember the third life you're affecting, because that's the one who is most important -- the one who doesn't have a choice, and the one you're committing to caring for for the rest of his/her life. As far as I was concerned, I didn't want to have a child unless I was prepared to sacrifice my own needs and desires for his/hers; I didn't want to make a life I wasn't 100% committed to supporting, and I could SO see myself being neglectful to that child out of selfishness from time to time. This is so true. I had kind of a rocky childhood�not really far out of the norm, just the reality of being an emotional person. I don't have illusions about childhood being this rosy, perfect time. I remember asking my mom why she had me. I really wanted to know and understand from a young age why someone would take on such a huge responsibility�not just of raising someone, but of making the the decision to actually bring forth a new person onto such a troubled planet where there is no guarantees of health, or protection from misery and suffering. She had such a simplistic thought process: "I wanted children" and "That's what people do" that I don't follow and never have. I could never tell a child I had with confidence that I wanted to raise a child and be a mother more than anything in the world. I wonder how I would answer a question like that? The honest truth would be: "I was hoping it would be different when it was my own," or "Your great grandparents (who would be dead by then probably) and grandparents really wanted some new blood in the family, to enliven those family gatherings, and give them something to brag to their friends about." It just doesn't come off sounding very good!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 923
Parakeet
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Parakeet
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 923 |
Great qualitative reply from Duane! And I agree with other people's advice on "Don't have a baby unless you're 100% sure." Think about it: Would you want to be the child of a parent who wasn't sure if she wanted you or not?  I know I will never feel what the maternal instinct feels like -- that is just not possible for me, but I wanted to point out in non-emotional, concrete terms, what parenthood means in real life from my own "thought" experiments that I used, partly, in my own decision process to be CF -- that's all. I hope that I've done a decent job of voicing that POV.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 73
Amoeba
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Amoeba
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 73 |
I wanted to point out in non-emotional, concrete terms, what parenthood means
But, Duane, you're missing the only real reason to have a kid: the squishy mooshy feelings!! ;D
Now, back the the original post:
Now, I am confused. I find so many more negatives to having children than I do positves. The only problem is that my husband would like at least one child in his life.
I think it does suck when one person wants kids and the other doesn't. But does your husband really want you doing something for *him* that you're not sure you want to do? And, being the woman, it's something YOU have to DO. It's not like adopting a pet together. You will get pregnant, you will give birth, you will be the primary caregiver(or most likely). This may be a really unfair comparison, but it's almost like your child wanting a dog. Your child will play with the dog, but who will do the real work? Who will walk the dog, feed the dog, clean up when the dog poops, take the dog to the vet, etc? I know, most fathers do more with kids than children do with pets, but the work is still mainly on the woman. And you say your husband married you for you...yet you worry how he'll feel in 20 years?? Will he not still be married to you for you?
I find so many comments in your post that are pretty glaring to me....I was never a huge fan of children, but I don't dislike them either (now imagine your own mother saying that...) I find so many more negatives to having children than I do positves....the fear of the complete change of life totally frightens me...I am not 100% against the idea, but obviously not 100% for it anymore either These are all your feelings on the topic, and very telling. And I, personally, couldn't agree more! My thoughts are, bring a child into the world with joyful anticipation, or not at all. No one wants to be the 'might as well' kid.
I would want time to enjoy with my husband again once the kids or kids were out of the house.
This is something I never understand...hurry up and have kids so you can get them out of the house as soon as possible...do you want 'em or not?! And who knows how that turns out? Maybe you have a special needs kid who has to live with you your whole life. Maybe you have slacker kids who live with you your whole life. Maybe your kids have kids and you have to take care of them for some reason....I think if you're planning to be a parent, plan to be a parent for life. Don't think, "Yeah, I can handle this responsibility for 18 years, then I'm done!" Even when everything goes 'as it should' (ie kids grow up, move out, get their own lives, etc) you still worry about them, you still support them(sometimes financially!) It's a lifetime commitment, and should be seen as such. Please don't think I'm preaching at anyone, it's just something I get very passionate about.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 923
Parakeet
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Parakeet
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 923 |
I wanted to point out in non-emotional, concrete terms, what parenthood means
But, Duane, you're missing the only real reason to have a kid: the squishy mooshy feelings!! ;D Ohhh my! How could I forget the squishy mooshy feelings? I'm sooo daft Wait... that squishy mooshy feeling -- that is the feeling you get when your curtain climber spills her cup of orange juice all over the carpet? Or are you talking about about less 'tasteful' squishy mooshy feelings?  Sorry, that is what came to mind, having seen how "well behaved" infants being fed act, creating new art works with their apple sauce on the walls? Gee -- let me start working on one of my very own. (Yea right...) Now, back the the original post:
...It's a lifetime commitment, and should be seen as such. Please don't think I'm preaching at anyone, it's just something I get very passionate about. Some things I can't say very well, because as a guy, I am not as empassioned as others are. Some things require a feminine touch, a 'woman to womanly' way of saying things. You did that very well. Even if I were to say what you said, it could be seen as a man, who has no concept of what it feels like to be in that position, preaching to the other person. Thusly, I try to come at things from a practical POV. I've talked to women who have had many different problems (relationship, post-abortion, etc) and learned the art of how to listen well and give unbiased advice as best I can. Sometimes I am compassionate -- other times, you need to be as blunt and direct -- ie "You need to start planning to leave him NOW". In that case, I didn't just advice, I assisted, but that is another story entirely. In any case, I am passionate as well with seeing people go into relationships, totally ignoring the warning signs of trouble down the road. Those that I've not lost contact with (through moving on, etc) are still good friends to this day. That is, I am too nice a guy -- but that is a good thing. Start attacking my wife in a face to face screaming match, however, and you'll see a side of me you don't want to see...ie I'm not a wimp when it comes to the important things. Happened once with her sister a year ago -- and it has never happened again  Yay! 
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 998
Parakeet
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Parakeet
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 998 |
"Curtain climbers" keeps showing up over and over in different posts since I used that phrase a few days ago! Did I start a trend? hehe
Duane, I loved your detailed, practical approach. While reading it, all sorts of mental images flashed before me. If I wasn't CF before I read that, you would have converted me! Too much scary reality in those mental images! lol
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 923
Parakeet
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Parakeet
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 923 |
"Curtain climbers" keeps showing up over and over in different posts since I used that phrase a few days ago! Did I start a trend? hehe Yes, you did start a trend. The term "rugrats" is too watered down. Heck, it's been a Nick Toons series for forever. Rugrats, by its very name, implies that the children in question just crawl around. "Curtain Climbers" indicates the next, more annoying stage -- wherein the young kids start pulling down tablecloths, opening drawers and throwing everything on the floor, as well as grabbing onto any electrical cord that is not taped down and pulling hard, just to see what is on the other end. More than likely, property damage will ensue. If curtains happen to be the item that is being pulled on, then the mental image of a baby kid being a literal "curtain climber" becomes a nightmare. Duane, I loved your detailed, practical approach. While reading it, all sorts of mental images flashed before me. If I wasn't CF before I read that, you would have converted me! Too much scary reality in those mental images! lol I believe that anyone who is truly CF will envision those sights and say "Ewww... yep, that stuff is most definitely not what I want to have 24/7". For those people, I would be, proberbially, preaching to the choir. I am so ... "graphic" in my descriptions (I know, graphic has a bad connotation, but I can't think of a better word at the moment) because it is human nature to... Monty Python alert -- I can't help it, really..."Always look on the bright.... side of life." In the case of raising a child, they concentrate, to the full exclusion of all else, the "Kodak moments". Only the stuff like the baby coming home from the hospital, how cute the baby looks in her crib, showing off the baby to the other mothers, the first crawl, the first steps, first "mama" -- sentimental stuff like that is highlighted and remembered. They forget the ... "ugly" realities, of diaper changes, burping the curtain climbers, the sleepless nights, the constant counting down of the minutes until the climber takes a nap so that the frazzled mother can actually take a break from watching and tending the little one. Feeding time, as I mentioned above, is another adventure. What kind of food does the baby want now? I already fed her -- why is she still crying? She liked apple juice yesterday, why is she flinging it off the high chair now? I'm not even talking about the lack of attention that the husband gets with "extracurricular activities" because the mother is too tired to do anything at all but sleep after a day of tending to the curtain climber. It is these types of "realities" that I hope to make prospective parents aware of, especially women, since ultimately, the woman is the one who will be doing all of that baby care. If she is unlucky, she will have to do the baby care, as well as take care of the house, do grocery shopping, and, more likely than not, work part or full time out of the house. If these "bad scenarios" are what a mother is willing to go through, because she really, truly wants to be a mother, then I have no problems at all with those types of women -- more power to them! But, if hitting these doubting women in the face with the realities of the rest of their lives with kids -- the caring, the worrying, everything that goes with being a mother, causes them to doubt, then maybe... just maybe, they might re-think their desires for children. We can only hope. My mission, if you want to call it that, is to provide a different way of explaining what motherhood (and fatherhood, too) really means. This is not to say that going the route of "If you are not 100% sure, don't do it" is wrong -- by no means - that is a truly valid opinion. The problem is, how does the person in doubt LOSE her doubt and become more certain in the way she thinks? Women are, by their very nature, more emotional people -- that is the way they are programmed by biology. Doubt, fears, etc are harder to assuage when the reason given is just "feelings". Wrap the reasoning inside something that people can understand -- ie a baby's feeding, or the "squishy feeling" stuff, or, long term, the mother's/parent's plans for vacations, travel, etc, with the new obstacles that were probably glossed over, because of "that is for OTHER mothers..that's not for ME. I'm SPECIAL." Welcome to the world, of the real. I guess this turned into a bit longer of a post than I thought -- oh well -- it's time to get some sleep. I don't think I have to worry about being woken up by a kid -- and that would be a good thing in my book.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 73
Amoeba
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Amoeba
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 73 |
They forget the ... "ugly" realities, of diaper changes, burping the curtain climbers, the sleepless nights, the constant counting down of the minutes until the climber takes a nap so that the frazzled mother can actually take a break from watching and tending the little one.
Yeah, and while the babe is napping, mom can then get to work...cleaning the house, cooking dinner, maybe sneaking in a very quick shower-but don't try to include toilet time in there, it's not going to happen.
I've helped my parents raise foster kids (and plenty of babies), and I cherish the sweet memories from those kids...but I haven't forgotten the bad ones. I was exhausted, and I wasn't even the primary caregiver!
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