BellaOnline Forums Education Gifted Education JUST REALIZING MY SON IS GIFTED

It's nice to see a good conversation going on here!

Cela, here is what you said originally: "With this in mind, I think there's no advantage emotionally to accelerating kids through school. They're just not socially ready to start college young. Heck, they really are not usually ready for college at 18--most 18 year olds have no firm idea of what to major in."

This led me to believe that you feel grade skipping or early college cannot be beneficial to any student, no matter how gifted. Our opinions are colored by our experiences, of course, so if you have only heard a few negative stories, I can understand your point of view.

You may wish to read Genius Denied by Jan Davidson
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wow! So many different views and none of them are wrong.

Right now, because I do not have the support system I would need, Noah attends public school for which I am very active and we have always supplemented his learning at home. That seems to work for him very well. That, in an of itself part time, is exhausting! My husband owns a music store and his hours keep him away 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. Sometimes longer.

Noah has been lucky enough to have 3 out of the five teachers he had in elementary school see his enthusiasm for different topics and they would guide him to more reading or things to do on the subject as well as stop me in the hall and say, "Hey, MaryLee, Noah is ....I suggest trying this..." Even the librarian would suggest books as she could see what an advid reader he was. Moving into Middle School will be a new experience.

I have another son, Maxwell (Maxy) who is highly intelligent. Meets NYS standards and exceeds NYS standards in a few aspects of his work. As I read more and more about gifted children, I see that an intelligent child is still not a gifted child. There is a whole host of traits and the reading I am doing is really helping me not to be angry at Noah. I was getting angry, thinking he could "help" some of his behavior and just didn't want to. Now I know, his need to get his feelings out and be heard needs to happen but I have been able to set guidelines and in just 3 weeks it has made a huge difference for him. He feels more understood and the more we talk about him being gifted, the more he understands his "gift" the better he feels. Noah's issues with socialization seemed to be just that he wanted everyone to just accept him for who he was. They can't do that because they don't understand what drives the passion. It comes off as bossy and besides who gets excited about school? The one word everyone has used for Noah from Sunday school to bowling was "enthusiastic". Kids his own age do not understand the enthusiam or the drive to learn. So I was getting frustrated because the last few months I kept telling him, "you need not to share so much of yourself. You don't need to lay all your cards on the table." and he kept telling me, "But that is who I am Momma. They need to accept that." and it was a frustrating circle for the last few months. Now I see that he was right and I was wrong. I wanted him to conform so he wouldn't be so upset and frustrated but the reality is they do need to accept him for who he is and while he may not be the most popular kid in school, teachers love him, parents love him, we love him and someday those kids will appreciate him for who he is. It will be too late in terms of high school and such but he'll find his way and be happy. His life will catch up.

So, I'll keep reading and keep checking the advise offered here and as school starts we'll see what happens, Now that I know what I am advocating for, it will make it a lot easier for me to do that and the fact that I do stay so involved in the school system and the fact that his pediatrician stands behind me and she is always willing to "fight" for him as well, makes the uphill battle a lot more tolerable.

I'm also lucky in that my parents and close friends of mine are willing to read anything I give them to "help" understand Noah and better deal with situations as they arise. I've already had 4 offers to "read what you have read when you are done"

Thanks everyone I appreciate all you have contributed.

MaryLee

Would you consider homeschooling??

www.hoagiesgifted.org

www.brightkidsathome.com

I think social development lags behind in some children, but that is true in the general population as well. We have to take our children as who they are, individually, because what is right for Susie or Johnny might not be right for Tommy.

The really ironic thing about that aspect is that my ds, at preschool age, acted MUCH more mature than age-mates (many years more), but now, often, seems younger in many ways. (Of course, being 15 and maybe perhaps barely into puberty may be a factor. Those hormones haven't really kicked in yet.)

And fwiw, I'm one of those mothers who let her teen stay up all night that night that -- but my son did have a firm "stay as a group" command, which I knew he would follow. Boy scouts has a buddy system protocol for a reason, and I like to follow it as a rule.

Yes, that is what I found. Noah was so much more immature than his peers at a younger age and then recently, I began to "think" he was more immature because he was so (what I started to think) uncontrollable about his emotions, particularly his passion for things and I was stuck between not wanting to lose his spirit and enthusiasm and reigning it in. Then I started reading GUILDING THE GIFTED CHILD and I realized it's not immaturity. It is that kids his age usually start to become more reserved and hold back and that a lot of gifted children do not hold back. I had to remind myself that his enthusiasm was not immaturity and that him becoming upset at times when most kids would hold it in was also a characteristic of being gifted and they need different avenues and ways of doing what is socially acceptable. In the few weeks I have implimented some of the things in this book, I have watched my son gain control over some of his "issues" and really try. He just needed a different way. Some would probably say he has matured but for me, he just found something that worked. If that makes any sense to any of you. He didn't like feeling the way he was feeling when he was upset or being unable to control his feelings, it's just that nothing worked before. We found something together that worked and since he was always open to trying different solutions, to me he was always mature in his approach. Whew!

From what I read, I should be thankful that my son wears his feeling son his sleeve because some gifted children can be withdrawn and that is not good.

Even scarier is the fact that gifted children are highly susceptable to suicide and so now instead of telling him to "buck it up Noah. You NEED to get control of this " which luckily did not go on too long. About 2 months, as I had become frustrated and I was handling it wrong. We now have an arrangement that he tells me he needs to talk and I give him a time frame for which I will be available to do that. He has to accept my answer. Used to be he would interrupt and need assistance now. I need to talk now. Now we have an understanding and it is working. I think I got that manuever from THE HIGHLY SENSITIVE CHILD.

So, if his curiosity is considered childish or immature, I'm all for it because his curiosity may hold the key to the cure to cancer or any other host of problems in this world that those without this enthusiasm would'nt bother with.

I'm honest with him about being gifted. I've told him long before I knew he was gifted that his brain was a gift from God like other peoples' gifts are singing, carpentry..etc..and that he had a responsibility to use it and train it to be the best it can be and he has always taken that very seriously.

As for homeschooling...would I consider? That question came from Jan Z. I've thought about it many times and I have to be honest with myself and don't think that I could do it without my husband's support and his support would not be there. Not to mention we enjoy being a part of the school community and all that goes with it. We have a very tight school community. So, I'll wait and see and continue to homeschool with him attending public school. Both of my kids get their education supplemented. Only because they are above the normal range and school teaches to the average student. I get all of my supplies from a homeschool Mom who's daughter is a senior this year but we have been buying her stuff for years. Kids really enjoy what she has to offer and certainly Mary Grace is proof that homeschooling is a great choice when you have the support. She already has several college classes under her belt and she isa very grounded young lady.

MaryLee

zandes, I didn't ever try to keep up with our son, unlike many parents. At 18 months of age, he could identify 30-some states just seeing a black magnet of the shape in any orientation after just playing with this magnetic puzzle for a couple hours (and the rest soon after that) and I could try to learn state shapes for days and still not be able to differentiate Wyoming from Colorado like he could, but I also just wouldn't care to bother. While I never had much desire to learn anything other than what I felt there was a good reason to learn (like I researched homeschooling as I wanted to know which form of education would be best not just for our son, but for our family and others our son would be around, like fellow classmates and teachers), our son seemed born with a desire to learn everything he could, and he learned it rather well just from living. For example, we were having our traditional Halloween donut at a Dunkin' Donuts when our son was 7 and some man sitting at a table near us said to our son, "Are you familiar with the imaginary number i?" and I have no idea why this man would ask anyone such a question, but it peaked our son's interest and he asked people he thought might know, "What are the practical applications of the number i?" and when nobody was giving him an answer, he went and researched it at the library (it was funny as he asked the librarian and that man thought he meant the letter of the alphabet and pointed to the children's section, and which time our son felt this guy didn't even understand that there was an imaginary number i and so went to the online catalog to look up the topic and then checked the math section in the regular part of the library, upon which time he also introduced himself to "e"). He had been given a tour of NIST in MD when he was 10 (set up by someone who knew our son and had given a talk there and suggested to their physics director that they meet out son) and researched NIST online before that tour and learned that there is an atomic clock at the NIST in Colorado and so when we were there on vacation that next summer, our son went there for a tour only to learn they stopped giving them on 9/11. But was he deterred? No, not him (at least not back then; I think he has lost much of his "spunk" in more recent years and hope he some day gets it back). He happened to notice (and memorize) the number of the director of NIST there (it was on some directory that was facing the guard and upside down from our son, but reading upside down was something he was doing at 2) and went to the lobby and called the director and explained that he was a 10-year-old college student from the east coast who had hoped to get a tour of the atomic clock while there and was disappointed to see public tours had ceased and wondered if he could arrange a *private* tour, and sure enough, the director came out to the lobby two minutes later and gave our son and he 12-year-old friend a private tour. He has always been good about learning what he can on his own and seeking those who can teach him when he can't find what he wants to know (or see or experience) without help....well, I take that back as at times, he is resistant to asking for help as he prefers to do things on his own if it's not something set up as a group activity, but at least he has plenty of experience of reaching out to others for help in his youth, as well as being reached to and helping others. If your son has the Internet, he probably doesn't need much else other than maybe lab equipment or others to discuss things with, and we provided the later by allowing him to join things like a book discussion group where all the other members were adults (who appreciated him and invited him to have lunch with him and give presentations, etc.) and the lab equipment he got some exposure to with "Physics is Phun" (a college program for high school students but all the public is welcome) when he was 5 or so and then in a physics lab once he started college. At times, your son might benefit by a "traditional" library. For example, I had a health issue arise last month and our son felt the online information helpful, but went to the MIT library for hard copies of journals and then to the Harvard Medical School Library (which MIT grad students are allowed to use) to look up more in books and journals there.

cela, I can't list exactly which studies I've read over the years as I unfortunately never kept track of the article titles or links online, but here is an article that covers a number of research studies done in this are that can start your quest to learn more on this topic:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

zandes, I didn't ever try to keep up with our son, unlike many parents. At 18 months of age, he could identify 30-some states just seeing a black magnet of the shape in any orientation after just playing with this magnetic puzzle for a couple hours (and the rest soon after that) and I could try to learn state shapes for days and still not be able to differentiate Wyoming from Colorado like he could, but I also just wouldn't care to bother. While I never had much desire to learn anything other than what I felt there was a good reason to learn (like I researched homeschooling as I wanted to know which form of education would be best not just for our son, but for our family and others our son would be around, like fellow classmates and teachers), our son seemed born with a desire to learn everything he could, and he learned it rather well just from living. For example, we were having our traditional Halloween donut at a Dunkin' Donuts when our son was 7 and some man sitting at a table near us said to our son, "Are you familiar with the imaginary number i?" and I have no idea why this man would ask anyone such a question, but it peaked our son's interest and he asked people he thought might know, "What are the practical applications of the number i?" and when nobody was giving him an answer, he went and researched it at the library (it was funny as he asked the librarian and that man thought he meant the letter of the alphabet and pointed to the children's section, and which time our son felt this guy didn't even understand that there was an imaginary number i and so went to the online catalog to look up the topic and then checked the math section in the regular part of the library, upon which time he also introduced himself to "e"). He had been given a tour of NIST in MD when he was 10 (set up by someone who knew our son and had given a talk there and suggested to their physics director that they meet out son) and researched NIST online before that tour and learned that there is an atomic clock at the NIST in Colorado and so when we were there on vacation that next summer, our son went there for a tour only to learn they stopped giving them on 9/11. But was he deterred? No, not him (at least not back then; I think he has lost much of his "spunk" in more recent years and hope he some day gets it back). He happened to notice (and memorize) the number of the director of NIST there (it was on some directory that was facing the guard and upside down from our son, but reading upside down was something he was doing at 2) and went to the lobby and called the director and explained that he was a 10-year-old college student from the east coast who had hoped to get a tour of the atomic clock while there and was disappointed to see public tours had ceased and wondered if he could arrange a *private* tour, and sure enough, the director came out to the lobby two minutes later and gave our son and he 12-year-old friend a private tour. He has always been good about learning what he can on his own and seeking those who can teach him when he can't find what he wants to know (or see or experience) without help....well, I take that back as at times, he is resistant to asking for help as he prefers to do things on his own if it's not something set up as a group activity, but at least he has plenty of experience of reaching out to others for help in his youth, as well as being reached to and helping others. If your son has the Internet, he probably doesn't need much else other than maybe lab equipment or others to discuss things with, and we provided the later by allowing him to join things like a book discussion group where all the other members were adults (who appreciated him and invited him to have lunch with him and give presentations, etc.) and the lab equipment he got some exposure to with "Physics is Phun" (a college program for high school students but all the public is welcome) when he was 5 or so and then in a physics lab once he started college. At times, your son might benefit by a "traditional" library. For example, I had a health issue arise last month and our son felt the online information helpful, but went to the MIT library for hard copies of journals and then to the Harvard Medical School Library (which MIT grad students are allowed to use) to look up more in books and journals there.

cela, I can't list exactly which studies I've read over the years as I unfortunately never kept track of the article titles or links online, but here is an article that covers a number of research studies done in this are that can start your quest to learn more on this topic:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

I am sorry that last ever-so-long post came out twice - the first time I submitted it, I got a message saying it didn't submit, and yet when I tried it again, I learned it had!

Anyway, I guess one reason I am not for kids being out alone all night even as a group is that group decisions are often less wise than even the least wise of the group would be alone. It was a *group* of kids who thought it would be funny to remove a stop sign years ago, for example (which turned out to be a deadly decision), and I often hear of groups doing things which no single person in the group would ever have done on their own and these are often not good things (though certainly some groups do things that are fantastic and can't be done alone). I also think decision making capabilities weaken when low on rest, and so believe people (of all ages, not just teens) tend to make poorer choices late at night than in the afternoon. I've never been one in favor of co-ed slumber parties, either, and yet it appears that our son's teen friends (along with our son) are perhaps trying to arrange one of these (Ms A, feel free to write me offline if you like so we can "chat" about this), maybe at a kid's parents' house or maybe at a hotel in a city that is more convenient to the group as they are from various states, though maybe they plan to at least sleep in different rooms, I haven't asked yet (and certainly will before granting our son permission to be involved in this "gathering" though if he manages to have it where one of his business trips is taking place, as he has tossed out at an idea, I might be unable to even prevent it if I want to prevent it).

Times have really changed since I was a kid and in some areas, I confess I am less than wild about this. In my teen years, teens would never dream of asking to pull all-nighters as a group of teens at a hotel. Today, many parents set kids up to stay overnight at hotels on prom and homecoming dance nights, or allow them to have alcohol in their homes (despite this being illegal) as they feel it safer than having them go to a party outside the home, and this is includes professional parents (people with initials such as M.D. and Ph.D. after their name). The closest I ever came here was when I was 22 and vacationing with my now husband, then boyfriend....I wanted to share a room as it cost less, and my father insisted we have separate rooms (which turned out to be sort of funny as the hotel wasn't sure what to make of a "couple" asking for separate rooms and so gave us a room with a king bed and room with two queen beds that had a connecting door, thinking I guess that if the couple was having a "good day" they could use the queen bed, and if not a bad time but not a great time, they could sleep in separate beds in the other room or just sleep in different rooms entirely if they wanted). Never mind that I have been living on my own in graduate school and had my graduate degree already by this time. But guess what? I credit him for doing that. He wasn't condoning pre-marital sex to "fit in with what other parents would have done" (as most parents in my dad's generation would have let a "child" of THAT age share a room) and even as someone who isn't at all religious (my father is a closet atheist and I am agnostic), I respect his doing his best to convey his morals. Now my father has to deal with a teen grandchild vacationing (in the same room) with her boyfriend and there is really nothing he can do about it (hopefully, the couple will marry and it will have it seem not so bad to him). I suspect I might have to deal with my child doing things I don't condone (based on his refusing to "obey" when given instructions on at least two things this year), but hopefully I won't lose longterm respect for him in those instances (like I would if he robbed a bank or something).

Sorry to have gone way off thread topic here.

thank you, rosemarie
i am extremely relieved

my 4 yr. old is currently schooling me half of the time on topics in which i thought i was decently versed! i ask him where he learned it, and he goes and pulls his resource off the shelf and teaches me. (he was also a very early reader - upside down, backwards, or cursive!) i think from now on, i won't ask where he got it from so much as just ask him what else hethinks he could learn about that - since it's obviously something that interests him.

sorry - off thread topic again *sigh*

I'm still fascinated by where our son picks up stuff and so am still often asking, "Where did you learn that?!"

When he was very young, he could tell me the title of the book and page number (just from memory), but now much of what he's learned has come from the Internet and it's not like he usually gives me the www address off the top of his head (it would be more along the lines of "A You Tube video from the TV Show Top Gear" that is plenty good enough to find it online), though at times, he actually does that, too.