BellaOnline Forums Beauty and Self Self Development What is your touchstone?

Holly you are so right about gaining something when we forgive rather than losing something. Forgiveness is not about forgetting the pain, or pretending it didn't happen, but is about not holding on to that anger. And forgiveness is not so much for the person you are forgiving, but more so for yourself. It's freeing yourself from pain, sadness and anger. It's learning something from a bad situation. It's allowing yourself to see things in a different way. Forgiveness allows us to continue on in life.

I felt the same way when I forgave my dad; I not only forgave him, but I could almost feel his sadness and his pain. I really felt for him. And my forgiving him helped me learn WHY he is the way he is. It helped me learn from his mistakes... forgivness is very powerful.

Do you guys think letting go is the same as forgiving? My son's dad abandoned him at 17 after forcing him to abide by visitation orders from the judge. My son refused to go for Christmas, 1999, because he wanted to be with his grandfather. My dad's cancer was bad and we were afraid it would be his last. My dad died December 14, 2000. My son doesn't regret his decision, but suffers because he has never heard from his dad again-not when he turned 18, graduated highschool, or when his grandpa died and he is so angry to this day. He'll be 21 this summer. He struggle with alcohol and depression. I tried to explain it is something broken within his dad, not him. He refuses to forgive him and says he doesn't care which tells me he does. Anyways, letting go of his anger would allow him to continue on in his life, right? Do you think he has to forgive him before he can leave it behind?

Nadaurz, I don't believe that forgiveness is necessary to 'letting go' - but if one can forgive, it certainly is a good thing.

There are situations too, where forgiveness does not necessarily result in the ability to let go. The memories can remain, both painful and happy, even when you love the person and forgive them in your heart. I am presently experiencing this regarding my ex-partner, whom I will always love, (the deeper the love, - the deeper the hurt) in spite of what was done. Letting go can take longer. There has to be healing first, in my opinion.

There are some things that one cannot 'forgive' - but I believe that there is another way, and that is to 'accept' that this happened, and to hold no grudges. When there is acceptance, I believe that 'letting go' follows. Acceptance has a certain 'finality' about it, and that is what I seek to attain.

Kerryanne.

Nadaurz, one of the hardest lessons in life is learning we can sometimes influence, but we can't control others, and have to let them be however they are going to be, even if it isn't good for them. Our focus needs to be first on what we ourself can do for ourself, and not what others have or haven't done which we cannot change. Your son hasn't learned this yet about his father. While he concerns yourself with what his father has not done, he's neglecting what he himself is doing to his own life.

I don't know the answer to your question, "does he have to forgive his father," but i think first he has to find his own responsibility towards himself. There are sort of two parts to these situations... when we blame someone we are saying they are responsible, not us. But we are also saying that we are not responsible for ourselves! I think that part has to come first.

I think it's helpful and empowering for each of us to say, "Whatever happened in the past, I am responsible for what is happening right now and what i do with this day." For instance, however much it hurt for his father to abandon him, his father is not here now forcing him to drink! You're not forcing him either, nor is anyone else or anything that happened. Your son is responsible for his own drinking... no one else is doing it TO him. Each day your son can choose to drink or not drink, to care for his own well being or not. It doesn't really have to do with the father, you see? We ALL have pain in the past, we don't all drink. If he holds someone else or depression as responsible for his drinking... well then no wonder he can't stop! Do you understand?

Forgiveness might be a later issue, and really, it's up to him whether he ever does it. First i think he, and you as well... should give up blaming his dad for this pain and the situation where your son is drinking and depressed.

And you can't blame yourself, either, for your son's problems. You can make suggestions to your son, but whether or not he chooses to follow those suggestions is up to him, even if he makes bad choices.

What you can do though, is make certain you are making the right choices for yourself, and lead by example. No matter what anyone tells their children, they always learn by far the most by the example set. So show him that you blame no one else for your own circumstances, and that you care for yourself. Let him see that you don't hold his father responsible for his (your son's) unhappiness or yours. Let your son see if you have any problem like depression, how you deal with it and seek counselling if you can benefit from it. And if he says he doesn't care about his father leaving, then ask him what he does care about! Ask him what he thinks of things like his life and his drinking and why he feels depressed. Try to get him to talk, and if he does then just listen and show encouragement and ask questions for a while and i think he'll be likely to open up more, and then slowly, you can dialogue more.

Anyway, that's my advice for what it's worth. Please let me know how things go, i'd be very interested in hearing what works for you and your son, and what doesn't. Best wishes dear, i'll be thinking of you.

Hollyelise, you have no idea how much your words mean today. Thank you. I'll respond more later after I've sorted all these thoughts and emotions out. You're one of the three things I'm most grateful for today. Sue

Thank you, Sue.

I hope things go well with you.

Hollyelise-I'm not sure my son so much blames his dad for his drinking, but more bases his selfworth on the fact his dad didn't value him enough to stay in contact. His low selfworth gives him the excuse to drink. Drinking excessively allows him to believe he doesn't care. Meanwhile, everyone is on his butt about his drinking, giving him the opportunity to feel sorry for himself because everyone's on his case. I don't blame his dad at all for his drinking, but you're right, I do blame myself. In a million and one ways, he is me as a teenager and young adult, except it was me and my mom's disapproval of me. If my own mother couldn't love me or even like me, how could anypne else. I turned to a man looking for that "unconditional love", but instead chose another abuser. To handle the abuse I binge drank to excess(sometimes driving). When I say to excess, I mean a quart of Jack straight over a few hours times. I'm 5ft 6in and less than 120 pounds. By rights, I should have died many times from both the beatings and the booze. But it wasn't my time. Sometimes I wonder if I wasn't trying to die. Regardless, after my first child was born, I swore I'd never let them feel the way I had. My daughters, oldest and youngest, are confident, strong, and determined women. My son on the other hand has always struggled with depression and low selfworth. He did not see me drink, but he heard stories. H e saw me abused, but he also saw me fight my way out and battle my demons within. My key was finding the right person(a psychologist) that I could trust and could speak to me in a way I understood. I now know there wasn't something wrong with me, but something broken within my mom. She loved me and still does love me the best she can. She's not capable of giving healthy love or receiving it for that matter, but I can do nothing but love her anyways. She gave me life, but I don't owe her my life and won't allow her to hurt me any more. Understanding was my overcoming. I think my son got my genetics and was predisposed to depression and low selfworth. Alcoholism runs in my family, too. I chose his dad and history repeats itself. I know I can do nothing but love him until he chooses to do something, but knowing what I did keeps me in fear of that dreaded final call, saying it's too late. Iknow it's in the hands of a higher power, but I just wish I could reach him before it destroys his life or takes his life. You are totally right when you say as long as he blames someone or something else for his drinking, he will not stop. I would take all his pain for him if I could. It's hard to see my child so torn, but I know it was through my pain, I found the help I needed. I now know what my dad was feeling when he told his mom he was so afraid I'd never see 21. I wish he was alive so I could tell him how sorry I am to have caused him so much worry and pain. I believe somewhere he knows.I am powerless to help my son, just as my dad was powerless to help me. He knows I'm here and love him no matter what. My feeling guilty isn't going to help him. You helped me realize that and I thank you. If you have anymore insights, I'd be glad to here them. Sometimes being so close, a person misses the obvious. Thanks for being there. Sue

wow.

I'm so moved by the depth of your honesty and courage.

I want to think about this before responding... i'm going to work soon, too.

I wish i could just put my arms around you and hug you.

I know what you mean about being too close to your own problems to see some things... i'm the same way with my own problems!!! Sometimes though... hearing and trying to help someone else helps me see what i must do for myself.

i will think on this and be back.

love,
~holly

Here, Sue... you might find some answers to your questions...

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!