BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Spirituality Hurtful Words

Michelle.. How do you know that conversion is what is best for anyone? What if being a Pagan IS THE BEST for me? Why would you want to pray to change me in any way at all? That is the point I am trying to make.

If you are praying for me to convert to Christianity that would imply that you feel that the beliefs I hold are wrong and have no merit. They are not wrong and they do have merit.

It is not a question about whether the words have meaning to a non-believer as you put it..but rather that the words are hurtful in the sense that they are condemning another for their beliefs.

Again, why would anyone pray to convert someone who is happy, well adjusted and content within their own belief system. If you got your wish and I converted to Christianity it would be out of fear and not love. And, I can tell you that I would be quite miserable in that belief system.

I see it as in invasion of spiritual privacy because the very act of praying for me to change my beliefs (especially without my consent) is like entering into my household and telling me that I need to change the decor because you don't like it.

I hope that this makes sense to you.. I am not belittling your beliefs.. I honestly am trying to make a valid point here.

Christians believe that there is no greater happiness than what they have found, therefore those who are loving often feel that they want others to know the same happiness.

HOWEVER! There is a blind spot here, because no matter how well-meaning it is, it is still saying that their happiness is greater than yours. And this is when non-Christians get hurt and angry.

I think that greatest prayer anyone can have for another is to pray, or meditate, or send positive thoughts for a person's BEST AND HIGHEST GOOD. That way, you respect their own beliefs while at the same time wishing them well.

If someone tells me that they will pray for me, I always ask what they are going to pray for, for me! If they say "for your conversion" or "for you to be saved" - I say, "thank you, but NO thank you." If they say "that you will find peace and joy" then I say "Blessed be, and peace and joy to you also!"

It depends on their intentions for me.

Ann.

I agree with Ann. Most Christians Mean well but there is a blind spot. As Christians, we believe there is only our beliefs and way of thinking and everyone else is misrable and dont know it!! I use to think this way but I begain to think past church Dogma and realize that we dont have the own the corner for happyness and we dont own all the answers. We dont even know all questions!!!

I have learned to respect all the denominations of christianity and also all other religions that have hope for peace and have Love as the basic teachings!!! I dont agree with all of them but then again I dont have to!!!

If you turn the tides and as a christian would you want someone to do a spell on you to convert to Wicca so you will be happy?

It feels a little inturesive and to most they see this as a curse or like they should get resaved so why should a Wiccan feel any less threatened or annoyed? or any Pagan, Buddist, or whathave you?

As a Christian myself this is a hurdle I strife to overcome because everyone ask me Dont you think they will burn in hell and Do you want to see them Burn in hell and of course the famous You will have less Jewuls in your Crown if God let you have a Crown!!! plus the most annoying of all YOUR NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!

and this is what I think! I am not God I dont Play God on TV!!! I am not the judge of anyone but myself and My Salvation does not depend on how many people I can convert, annoy or otherwise tic off!!

Of course my view is somewhat jaded by years of debating Baptist vs. Nazarine! the 2 church have for years tried to convert the other!!! for those that dont know its a Once Saved Always Saved vs you can fall from Grace debate!!! Also I have seen the worste of the convert the people band wagon have to offer I think I posted that under the Reseach in the Wicca forum.

And just as a side note Linda, I dont think anyone here would purposely try to hurt your feeling or force you to convert!!!

Thanks Ann and Freebubbles for clarifying what I was attempting to say. My first response is usually indignation when someone tells me that they are going to pray for me. This time, however, I stopped and thought about it rationally and decided to approach the topic without the resentment I usually feel brewing.

I guess the question is "Why does someone else have to be wrong in order to make someone else's religion right? That is what bothers me about quotes like the one on the bottom of Amadeu's posts. It implies that someone else must be wrong to make his belief right. And, that simply is not so. There is no right or wrong way to believe in a higher power. And, if someone chooses not to believe at all that is not wrong either.

And, you have made a wonderful point Freebubbles. Why would any belief system based on love and compassion be wrong? Wiccans love the Earth, their main rule is harm none in word, thought or deed, and they do believe in an unnamed higher power. How in the world could this be wrong? And why in the world would a belief like that condemn someone to eternal suffering?

Gandhi was one of the most insightful, amazing, and inspired men who has walked the earth in our time. He was loving, peaceful and compassionate. So is the Dali Lama. And yet, according to the "rules" of Christianity they are going to Hell, where they will meet up with Mother Theresa.

NO... I cannot and will not dishonor or disrespect the accomplishments and love that these beings have brought to this earth... and I don't think that Jesus would either. Why would he? They were and are carrying on the work he started. Why would saying words from a book change the fate of their souls?

I know that noone here would try and purposely hurt my feelings.. it truly isn't about that. And, noone can force anyone else to believe anything that does not ring true to them. In fact, I have nothing against Christian belief whatsoever except when someone insists that it is the "only right way to believe." I see you Freebubbles as a signpost for many other Christians. You can have a very strong and powerful faith, and yet you do not have to pray for others to see things your way.

It seems to me that this is a rock solid and totally unshakable faith that can allow others to think as they will without feeling threatened in some way. And, also to understand that there are people of every faith who are having wonderful,happy, content and productive lives.

My faith makes me happy too.. extremely so.. and I wouldn't change it because it is the rock I build my foundation on. So, it does bother me when a Christian cannot see and understand that. Praying for me to convert and be happy just does not make any sense to me at all when I am already happy.

I guess the other thing is that they insist on saying that my soul is in jeopardy when I KNOW that it is not. I KNOW THIS. I don't just think it. I have been to a place that few have been and I have felt what unconditional love and caring is about.

I died, and I did not meet Jesus or God. I was embraced by a source of light and warmth that I could not fail to sense as feminine in nature. I met the Goddess and she is love. And, I know that I will return there someday.

So, why is my experience not valid? If I said that I met Jesus or God there would be Christians rejoicing for me everywhere.. I say that I met the Goddess, and they tell me that I was hallucinating or that it was Satan in disguise. Hmmmmm.

I know where I went and what I felt. And, nothing can ever change that. I also understand that I saw and felt the Goddess because that is what I NEEDED to see and feel. I think that we see and feel what it is that brings us the most joy when we pass over. I know that I did.

Anyway.. I am off to give a sermon this morning on Mary Magdalene. And, for the Christians among us I will be doing a solo. In the Garden. I see it as a love song from the Magdalene to Jesus after the resurrection...

If love of a man who was kind, gentle, compassionate, loving and giving makes one a Christian.. than I suppose I am one of the best that there is.

Love and Light...

I am sorry if my quote offends but I have been asked so many times as to why I "feel I have to go around and spread the word of God" and I kept telling people because it is in the Bible that we should so I found a quote to prove that. Could be that if it is hurtful to you or bothers you, it's because the Holy Spirit is working in you. Just a thought.

or just offensive. And Amadeus... you just proved her point by saying "Could be that if it is hurtful to you or bothers you, it's because the Holy Spirit is working in you. Just a thought. "

It could be and she may very well be offended but I meant no offense in it and I apologize if I did but its along the same lines that if a Christian does something that is not in line with God or His word and that person feels bad after doing something, its because God is convicting that person of it or that is how are belief system works.

to me that is like when a instructor of mine when she found out i love gospel music she said it was jesus christ trying to work on my soul and tell me to come to him and I was wrong in my beliefs as a jew.

I found THAT highly offensive on many aspects, just as others may find it offensive to them as linda has said before.

First off, let me say tht I am not trying to convert anyone on here...I am just trying to explain the positionof Christians.

I don't think I've been doing a very good job of explaining - because it seems to be coming off as telling people what to do, and I am honestly not trying to do that.



This is the hingepoint of our faith - that Jesus is the only way. To try and deny that is contrary to everything I believe. I understand that not everyone believes this, and after I've shared once and been told "no" - I do not keep trying to cnvert someone. But on here it is different, because I am trying to make understood what I believe. I am not scoping out any one person.

Prayer to God should always contain, "Thy will be done." It is up to God and the individual what happens after that.

Very understandable Michelle. I have always found our discussions to be quite genial and polite especially since we are of different faiths.

You seem to always try to work out things and present them in a very polite and frank yet understable manner.

;-)