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Or lets talk about abortion.

Jewish law not only permits, but in some circumstances requires abortion. Where the mother's life is in jeopardy because of the unborn child, abortion is mandatory.

An unborn child has the status of "potential human life" until the majority of the body has emerged from the mother. Potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, but it does not have as much value as a life in existence. The Talmud makes no bones about this: it says quite bluntly that if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, you cut it up within her body and remove it limb by limb if necessary, because its life is not as valuable as hers. But once the greater part of the body has emerged, you cannot take its life to save the mother's, because you cannot choose between one human life and another.

There are many things that are thought of as an abomination. Just because it is taught as so does not mean it is so. Judaism teaches us to use our own brains. To question things. To evaluate things and re-evaluate!

Interesting......

I can honestly say that as time goes on I appreciate the freedom that comes with not subscribing to any certain faith or belief system.

I understand that there are rules and laws which govern our world.. and I can abide by those. They are the rules and laws that govern our physical plane of existence. And, they are not "owned" by any particular religion or belief system...

Love one another.
Honor and respect your planet.
Honor and respect the other beings who share your planet.

The laws are simple. And yet, they seem to be impossible for the human race to abide by.

No amount of religious posturing will make any difference at all until we learn to accept one another as part of the web of life.
We are all created equal. We all come from the same source. We will all return to the same source. Fact.

Religion, politics, greed, and materialism all just serve to drive us further and further apart. When we focus on our differences instead of on the ties that bind us we only serve to create discontent and disharmony.

Love and Light..

So by Source do you mean the Earth as fact or a God (hmm not the right word but not sure of a right one) Energy Source?

Jase said
Judaism teaches us to use our own brains. To question things. To evaluate things and re-evaluate!

I agree unless we find it true for yourselvies the knowledge and believe means nothing! If we can not understand the belief how can we put it into practice in our own life or ecpect others to follow it? there will be this constent underlieing doubt and until we study and learn it will grow bigger!

as for abortion... I thinkit should NEVER be done lightly in cases of rape and life or death I think its up to the woman! but to go out and slept around and oops idont want streach marks I want an abortion no! i dont think that should be allowed at all!

abortion as a birth control method is murder to me. But thats me. I don't think I'd have an abortion (if I were a woman) but that doesn't mean I have the right to tell another women she cannot or can.

I just think sometimes it is used too easily.

I agree to a point! I think there should be a law of some kinds with guidelines to prevent people from haveing an abortion over and over again as a form of birth control. but for the most part I think many women have better reasons to have an abortion then strech marks and I dont want to be fat!!

I think the few how do chose abortion under those terms have a illness or deeper and bigger problems and I think a law to prevent them from doing this over and over would lead to them finding help for it! or maybe not so much a law as a screening? manditory coucling?

I'm not condoning abortion or anything, but just to throw another point into the debate for interest:

Free mentioned an extreme example of somebody wanting an abortion because they don't want stretch marks. If you had a law that forced that woman to have her baby after all, what kind of mother would that woman be? What kind of life would that baby have?

Yes, the mother could give the baby up for adoption - but what about before the birth? This mother would have no consideration for her unborn baby's health - she might continue to drink, smoke, take drugs, starve herself or continue with bulimia, because someone selfish enough to want to abort because of stretch marks would be selfish enough to not make any concessions to the needs of an unwanted child growing inside her. In fact, if she were so worried about stretch marks she might be highly likely to diet excessively to prevent weight gain.

So you have a baby coming into the world, suffering already, and with severe disadvantages to come. I won't say, "wouldn't it be better..." Some things are shades of grey.

Just tossing this in the mix, as I said, to present a different perspective.

Elle, i totally understand the perspective which you presented. That is why I said I had no right to tell a woman she couldn't, but I could never do it I don't think unless my own life was threatened (because what kind of mother would I be if I couldn't be a mother by dying before a child could be born). I think if I were the victim of rape or incest it wouldn't be so difficult either.

However, being the product of adoption, that would be another possible outlet for me. My mother is the product of adoption. I would hate to think what would have happened if her birthmother had decided to use a hanger instead of giving her up for adoption.

Elli you bring a valid point that is why I think if there was ...maybe not a law per sa but a counceling for the one who have problems and the baby while may or may not really be wanted, the mother needs help! if a woman goes out and get pregent and aborts over and over again there is something wrong and this maybe her way or a cry for help!! If the pregent woman had to get a psych. exam to make sure that they are in sound mind and are not suffering from PTSD or Depression, Bipolar dissorder or whatever.... I think it would help the mom to be or not to be and also conceling after the abortion. there is alot of hormones and emotions that can complecat things...

this is not to say that some one with depression or whatever that is on meds or otherwise has it undercontrol should not have an abortion for personal reasons.

I think by outlawing it completely you force women to go underground and have it done in unsafe conditions and they still dont get help. but if you regulate it somehow they can get the help they need!

While I would Truly love to say the selfish for selfish sake should be band form haveing abortions I cant because if you start telling a group of people what to do with there bodies for one reason then it snowballs and sooner or later that group has no control over what is done to them! its like forcing the mentalily ill to get staralized or take meds... that is just as wrong even though it makes me sick to say it

EVERY WOMAN should be able to chose what is done or not done to her body!

I just think if the woman is in trouble then she need help before after during pregnecy, abortion or whatever!

I also think there should be a way to regulate abortions so that they are not paid for by the goverment or tax payer because not everyone believe that it is right and there for should not have to pay for them unless in cases of life and death or incest and rape!

I think I fight with myself on the issue! lol