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Other #306558 04/11/07 05:19 PM
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Gecko
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You're a fabulously smart, articulate, understanding person, Ali --- just like me, and most of the other Atheists I know.

cool
grin

Elise



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Other #306559 04/11/07 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ali - Atheist Editor


I think the lesson I will take from this is one we should all know already - that people, on the whole, can and do contribute regardless of their situation. I don't think any special interest group has a monopoly on charity or kindness.


Yes this is true. As an Athiest your reasons for contributing are more sefless than others,some people who are religious just want to score brownie points with their "god"

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Gecko
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I agree with Cindy that we are all probably a little sensitive to the word "selfish." I do find Alicia's open mindedness refreshing, esp. considering that other parents have posted here often seem to have a hidden agenda even as they say they are trying to empathize/understand our point of view.



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Gecko
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Originally Posted By: Special Needs Mom
As a parent of children with special needs, I'm actually quite grateful for my single family and friends.

Today for instance, I have one kid at home and the other in kindergarten. It's only with the help of my single brother (who luckily is at home) and a single part time caregiver that I'm able to juggle picking up one from school and bringing the other to the doctor's.

I quite agree with the previous post about single people often being more selfless.

When it comes to helping other members in my extended family, I'm not usually available because of my kids, so the tasks fall on my single sibling. Again.



Yes, but please be careful not to conflate "single" with "no kids"...just like "married" and "kids" don't always go together (hence, this forum).

I'm glad you've got a good support network, SN Mom. They can be so important.

Elise



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Tbunny #306562 04/11/07 05:23 PM
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Yes I get paranoid about The S word. But I did realise that there was no malice involved on this occassion.

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Thank you, Bonsai, and the rest of you as well. No, no malice intended. I think I understand what Tbunny means by "hidden agenda" as well. I imagine some parents can seem pretty condescending at times. That must get old.

Other #306706 04/12/07 02:14 PM
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Mike_e Offline OP
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Alicia,
I am the one that started this thread. I could just as easily have titled it "lazy people" as the stats from the paragraph below clearly state:

In 1972, 87% of children who lived within a mile of school walked or biked daily; today, just 13% of children get to school under their own power, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In a significant parallel, before 1980, only 5% of children were obese; today that figure has tripled, says the CDC.


My boss is adamantly CF like me. He drives everywhere like the other two people that work in my office. All of the people who work for the county, title companies and banks that we deal with are the same way. I am the black sheep who walks to most meetings and errands, most of which are within easy walking distance. In the interest of good workplace relations, I keep my mouth shut and do my job.

The point is everyone one needs to make an effort to reduce consumption, whether they are CF or a family of 10. I am sure we can all agree on that. Read the attached article about the biking Kimble family.

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SCREW OPEC AND RIDE A BIKE!
bonsai #306827 04/12/07 11:56 PM
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Ok, Bonsai said it wonderfully well. I'm into lists so bear with me as I recap the things she said that really resonate with me.

-Many of us CFers get called "selfish" so much we have a knee-jerk negative reaction to the term.

-This board gets posted on from time to time by parents who post annoying, bashing, critical, or condescending things. (You did not, after careful re-reading of your posts.) Therefore sometimes I have a knee-jerk negative reaction to any parents posting here. More so when it may be construed that they're defending something the rest of us are venting about in a thread, because often that escalates, unfortunately.

Unfortunately, Ali, you got caught both ways. BUT- I think I "get" you now. Thanks for sticking it out and for your open-mindedness. You're the kind of parent I'm glad to know. smile

Originally Posted By: bonsai


First, you used a word which is so often hurled at us that it's become a cliche. You didn't mean it in a negative way, but it could be (and was) misconstrued. Go to the wikipedia article on childfree people and notice that the word "selfish" comes up very near the top. It's sort of similar to calling an atheist "unethical/immoral" (when atheists are generally some of the most ethical folks on earth...if one believes that there's no afterlife, then you'd better make the best of what you know exists --- life here, on earth). A lot of religious people seem to think that one can't be ethical/moral if one doesn't believe in God...but in fact, it's nothing more than a stereotype. Both are real buzzwords in these two respective communities, likely to get people's backs up in the blink of an eye --- but the equation of CF with "selfish" is, if anything, even more frequent.

Secondly, simply by being a parent on this forum, you're likely to get a few of us armed for bear...not because of what you say, necessarily, but because of the specter of all the past parents (on the list or off) who have said "you're selfish...you'll change your mind...you don't know what life can be until you have kids...etc.". You're not to be blamed for others' past misdeeds, but it can be difficult sometimes for us to be entirely level-headed.

The vast majority of us don't hang out on parenting boards, never have, and plan to never do so in the future. If any of us did, and decided to contribute, we'd likely get our head handed back to us on a plate. Some parents choose to hang out here; some are pretty obnoxious and condescending ("I used to be just like you, until the scales feel from my eyes and I saw the error of my ways by having children"...these folks were childless, not childfree, but it's difficult to tell them that --- or much of anything else, either). Most of the parents who contribute here occasionally are exceedingly articulate and open-minded (like you), and respectful of this board's culture.

But most of us, I'd venture to say, find it curious that parents are here. If they're here, then they should do their best to roll with the punches (which you're largely done): explain your POV, point out any flaws in logic that you see, etc., but accept that the board does have its own culture.

This board is a lot more patient with the parents who seem to hang out here regularly (both vocally and in lurk mode) than any other CF board I've visited (and I've visited plenty). I think that most of the CFs here would prefer to be in less of a fishbowl, but them's the breaks...it's an open forum, and parents seem to find us entertaining. We frequently get posts from parents who say "I've been watching this board a long time...don't want to intrude often, but I really must contribute about x topic you've been discussing...". It's a little eerie and unsettling at times --- even when the parents who contribute are uber-friendly; can't help but be.

In the context of all that (and coming from someone who isn't a member of the target audience of the board) I think your implied statement that we're "paranoid" isn't very fitting. We're often derided in real life for our choices, and come here looking for a place where, for a change, we don't have to explain ourselves. The word "selfish" comes up, and we see red --- even when the person who brought it up has good intentions. I hope you can come to understand that.

Elise


"I may not agree with what's on your bumper sticker, but I will fight to the end for your right to stick it." --Unknown
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