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I actually dont think that it is a more dangerous society. Its just that the media reports everything instantly. For example, in recent years school shooting were well publicized in the media and people talked about a rash of school violence. Hower, in actuallity during these same years school violence had gone down over all (despite these terrible incidents) no media outlets felt the need to report that the overall number of violent incidents had gone down. Recently I read a book about a man named Albert Fish in the 1920s who murdered and ate a large number of children around thirty, mostly african american, and molested many more. The crimes were not wildly reported in the media until he was caught for the murder of a white girl. Obviously nightmarish crimes have been happening since the dawn of time but only know does the media report every happening instantly.

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Originally Posted By: tubby3pug
I actually dont think that it is a more dangerous society. Its just that the media reports everything instantly. For example, in recent years school shooting were well publicized in the media and people talked about a rash of school violence. Hower, in actuallity during these same years school violence had gone down over all (despite these terrible incidents) no media outlets felt the need to report that the overall number of violent incidents had gone down. Recently I read a book about a man named Albert Fish in the 1920s who murdered and ate a large number of children around thirty, mostly african american, and molested many more. The crimes were not wildly reported in the media until he was caught for the murder of a white girl. Obviously nightmarish crimes have been happening since the dawn of time but only know does the media report every happening instantly.


I'd never heard about Albert Fish, Tubby...how awful.

Also, the local TV news (and also most national TV news as well) hardly ever bothers to give the bigger picture. They breathlessly go to whatever is "latest and loudest" (plus a dash of celebrity infotainment) and never bother to give the viewer any context, either about recent trends or older history. If the viewer isn't already informed (via digging through newspapers, NPR, the occasional worthwhile TV news or public affairs program, etc.), then they're certainly not going to get that way through the likes of the 18 minutes of newsnuggets on NBC Nightly News (that's what it amounts to when you subtract the ads).

An informed citizenry is the cornerstone of our democracy. No wonder we're in such a mess.

Then you've got the other phenomenon of *bad* public affairs shows, like the late unlamented "Crossfire". They take the paltry amount of information that the newscasts have given about actual issues and then grind it into a fine dust, while not adding any depth or additional information; they shed a bunch of heat, but no light. They also manage to do it while interrupting each other and just generally being as lacking in civility as possible.

If you haven't seen "The Daily Show" host Jon Stewart skewering the hosts of Crossfire (it resulted in the immediate cancellation of the latter show, after years and years on the air --- Stewart was the first person to so successfully call a spade a spade), please go to this link:

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bonsai #305988 04/09/07 09:41 AM
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I just adore that Jon Stewart.

nosy #305996 04/09/07 10:07 AM
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I love Jon Stewart too and he is much more informed then most "real" news shows. Im kind of a true crime buff so I read a lot of books about crime and I am always amazed when I hear people carry on about violence like its a new thing. Im a special education teacher and a few years ago when I had a class of mildy cognitively disabled students we were wtching a video on Mexico. They were talking about the human sacrifice rituals the ancient Mexicans practiced and one of my kids yelled out "wow there was murder back then too". I think that is a very telling statement on our society. Its liek we've convinced ourself that murder, child abuse, and other horrible crimes are a modern invention when there as old as the hills

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Well, yes, we can simply play the blame game, or we can identify what the source of a problem such as obesity is. The answer, in most cases, is usually quite complex, and involves a number of factors. In this case, only some of these problems can be traced directly back to negligence on the part of the parents.

It seems neither constructive nor particularly kind to accuse parents who have children with weight problems of failing in their parental duties. Yes, if a child is truly obese, the parents' behavior is obviously implicated to a degree. But it is naive to pretend that changes in society play no role in unhealthy behaviors.

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I'm with you guys... I don't think that crime is proportionately worse... it's just that with cable tv, and the internet, you hear about every crime across the world. In the 50's you only heard about what was happening in your neck of the woods. Also, with the population growth, statistically there are going to be more wackos out there (not a higher percentage, just more of them in total).
I always laugh when I see people having "Take back the night" marches. "Take back the night" implies that the night was safe at some point in history - but night NEVER was safe , especially for women.
I too think people are overly paranoid these days. You can't keep your kids inside all the time, so they need to learn about how to take care of themselves. Teach them to be smart, and then let them play. The odds that your kid is going to be abducted and/or abused by a stranger are still pretty small.

jmb #306058 04/09/07 02:44 PM
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Good point. Even in the Middle Ages, when religious righteousness was presumably at its height, people could be murdered walking through their own town.

So part of the reason why parents feel the environment is less safe now than it was in the past is that we hear more news of dangers. However, with the increasing mobility of the population, it's also often the case that people don't live in the same house for 50 years, and therefore fewer people know their neighbors well. Also, fewer of us have grandparents around to help watch our kids, either. So sometimes safety is a matter of doing the math.

Can we get a little paranoid about stranger danger sometimes? Of course. But I personally have one guy who lives across the street from me whom I do not trust at all -- not with my own life, and certainly not with that of my 9-year old daughter. He has exhibited behaviors in the past that smacked somewhat of stalking (commenting on what kind of trash I leave out on the street or on the comings and goings of visitors; sneaking up on me when I am working in my yard...), among other odd behaviors (getting into yelling matches in his front yard with his elderly father; getting in trouble with - but never being arrested by - the police). Although he has never done anything overtly threatening, there are many of us on this street who are suspicious of him. Hence, my daughter never goes out front to play without an adult watching. Perhaps if there was a nice old lady whom I knew really well who lived across the street and spent her afternoons knitting on her porch, I might reconsider. But as it is, it's just not an option. Call me paranoid if you wish, but I do not trust that man, and I don't see any reason to gamble with my child's life just because certain people might dismiss me as being overprotective.

It's all well and good to speak in generalities, and I certainly agree with many of your points. But as always, things are not always black and white. Likewise, other people's decisions, however much you might disagree with them, might not always amount to a simple failure of responsibility. Not every parent whose kid is a little overweight is shirking their duties. Not every kid who occasionally has a temper tantrum in a public place is an absolute spoiled brat. Most of us are doing the best we can in a complex - if not "evil" - world, often with less help than families had in the past. It would be great to live on a street with lots of other families where I felt it was safe to let my kids roam the neighborhood unchaperoned, but I don't. So my kids play out in the backyard or take Tae Kwon Do for exercize. It's not ideal, but it's the best I can do right now.

jmb #306061 04/09/07 02:52 PM
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I was talking a neighbor whose daughter doesn't have kids (I haven't met the daughter yet). She said her daughter's reason was she would worry too much. Even though I agree with all of you about the risks being there all along, I thought that reason was very smart and insightful. I know I would worry a lot too. I would let my kids play outside during the day, but I can understand why parents are paranoid.

My husband and I were talking recently about what it would be like having a teenager. We stay home at night a lot because we live in the mountains, and don't like to drive on mountain roads at night when not necessary. I was thinking about our typical night, staying at home watching a movie or reading, and having a teenager who wanted to go out partying. Just thinking about them driving off at 8 pm when we're almost ready for bed, or worse, getting picked up by whoever and driving off, made me realize how strange that would be. I'd be so worried about them being regular kids and speeding and getting into accidents. I wouldn't want to ever let them leave at night, and then they'd hate me.

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Ali - there's nothing wrong with making your kids play in the back yard... at least you let them play outside! Personally, I think it's dangerous to let kids play in the front yard... not because of the risk of strangers, but because of the risk of traffic. Kids can easily forget that they need to look before they run into the street.

Oh, and there were tons of wackos when I was growing up too... there was one man who used to call our house and ask VERY personal questions... but only when my sister and I were home alone (Creepy huh?). Then there was the flasher who asked us for directions when we were walking home from school, and there were also a couple of other individuals who I would call "questionable" living nearby. The bottom line is, that parents need to educate their kids to the potential dangers, and teach them what to do. You can only protect them so much... or you can run the risk of turning them paranoid too.

jmb #306096 04/09/07 05:08 PM
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You're right about trying to teach children how to identify potential dangers and what sort of red flags to look out for when dealing with strangers. It's just difficult for really young children to do this on their own. Sometimes parents feel as if they're going to be criticized no matter what we do: If we don't watch out for our children enough, we are irresponsible and negligent. If we watch out for them too much, we're paranoid and overprotective. It often feels like a no-win situation.

In any case, I'm not saying there weren't "weirdos" around when I was younger. I'm simply saying that the fact that there is a very specific weirdo across the street makes me err on the side of caution.

And speaking of the flasher you mentioned, I remember a flasher from my youth, too! He exposed himself to my then 8-year old sister under his table while we were having lunch one day in a shopping mall. She told my Mom, who promptly dragged us off to find a security guard. Unfortunately, the guy was gone by the time we returned. Anyway, I do remember that my Mother became very protective of us in shopping malls after that. I don't think she let me wander around in a shopping mall with my friends until I was in high school.

However, she let us wander around the neighborhood on our own for hours on end without having a clue what we were up to the whole time. Oh, she claims now that she always knew where we were, but we know better. I remember spending hours with a couple of girlfriends exploring the creek behind my house, even the drainage pipes that run under the neighborhood, and sneaking into and out of people's yards...all completely unbeknownst to my Mom, who was busy cooking and cleaning at home. She may have thought that we were all down at the local park the whole time with a large, protective group of neighborhood kids, but very often we were in places she would probably have died had she known where we really were! But we all survived, so I guess all's well that end's well...

Then there were those couple of times when we really were gone too long and too far, and we got the whole "You could've been dead in a ditch for all I knew!" speech. I have yet to have to give that one to my kids....knock on wood...but it does bring back some memories!

I guess what I'm saying is that yes, it is possible to be too protective. But it's also possible to argue that ignorance is bliss until somebody's kid gets kidnapped, raped, beaten up, robbed, or molested, and then suddenly everybody starts demanding where the parent was and how come they let their kids wander off by themselves without any adult supervision. It's always easy to identify clear cut cases of negligence and/or paranoia, but for those of you who aren't parents, are you so sure that the line would always be that easy to draw?

As a parent of two kids (ages 15 and 9) I understand completely why other adults would choose not to have children of their own I have many friends who are "married without kids," and I think it's a good thing to see people thinking through their options rather than blindly following the dictates of tradition. However, I also understand that parenting is an extremely difficult, but important, job, and one with difficulties and complexities that cannot be overexaggerated.

Last edited by Ali - Atheist Editor; 04/09/07 05:18 PM.
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