BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Atheist A question for non-Athiests who post on here.

It seems that the rational thinkers have abondoned this forum completely. Shall we meet elsewhere, PM me and let me know. We can just let cdmohatta and tex beat each other to death with their bibles.
It really is a joke, the 3 of them professing to spread the word and it has turned into a childish spat. I wish all atheists could see this, each of them interpreting the word in their own way.
About the dalmation not being lost tex, does that mean he believes in god? Oops forgot thats not good enough, does that mean he's a christian?

This is fine, as long as we can ignore TD and CD. (Sounds like a gangsta rap group.) And keeping them both on 'ignore' is working for me.
It has always seemed strange to me that those of us who have developed our own moral system of behavior sans saviors, saints or salvation, are doomed to a lifetime of folks trying to 'save' us by spewing hatred at us.
Here we are, living our lives peacefully, hurting no one, going to work, paying our taxes, having spent much of our lives puzzling out why we were here and how we are going to live, and doing it successfully in a way that works for each of us, have to endure being shouted at and denigrated. We don't do that to them.
They have been indoctrinated and brainwashed by people to believe the way they do. We have figured out our own way and force it on no one. But still, they shout and scream.
Tis a puzzlement.

You don't have to get all upset and emotionally charged...sit down. I'm not mad...

Dr Laura and Leviticus
Laura Schlesinger is a US radio personality, who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. She recently said that, as an observant Christian Jew, homosexuality is an abomination, according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstances. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the Internet.


"Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.

Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan...."

(name deleted.by me.)

If anyone else would care to supply the answers to the above problems, then I'd be very interested to read them....

I have laughed my a$$ off every time I run into that letter. It put Dr L in the corner and she has yet to get out.

With all do respect texasdave. This post shows your complete lack of ability to make an argument. Address homosexuality? Why should I? It is not an issue for me.

And then you add If you are going to use the Bible as evidence that homosexuality is wrong then in any court you have opened the Bible to cross examination, in which case we are free to point out what else it condones or forbids. It is you who need to explain your lack of support for slavery (against what it says in the Bible) or admit you think slavery is acceptable. Which is it?

You can ban TexasDave by going to his profile and clicking 'ignore this user'
Makes the forums so much more intelligent.

Yes - I also ignored texasdave and it's delightful! As someone previously said, I got tired of "having the bible thrown at me".

I never saw that letter to Dr. Laura - it's fantastic!

All of the statements in that letter were taken out of context and a couple were not even fully stated correctly. I did some studying on these scriptures and this is what I found in response. Please read on:

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

Foreign slaves could be bought, sold and inherited like other property. This does not mean that God approves of slavery. He made laws to ameliorate the practices of that time.

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


This is only a pick and choose statement and has been taken way out of context. The writer should have gone all the way to verse 11 at least.

Exodus 21:7-11 says, And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master who has bethrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her. And if he has bethrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. And if he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, clothing and her marriage rights. And if he does not do these three things for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money.

These passages mean that women also endured the hardship of slavery. In ancient times, a family might be reduced to such a desperate state that would sell a daughter into bondage. The law in this section served to protect the purchased bride. If she were not acceptable to her master, he would let her be redeemed, that is, her freedom might be purchased by another. In no case was she to be sold to a foreign person.

If she was purchased as a bride for a man's son, then she would be treated like a daughter. If the man took another wife later, he was still to continue to treat the purchased bride with respect. A husband who refused the purchased bride food, clothing and her marriage rights, then he was supposed to free her.

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

This passage provides regulations concerning a women's menstrual period. Her ritual uncleaness lasted for 7 days. As was the case with a man's discharge, any person or object she touched became unclean.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

That statement is just idiotic because it is referring to God not actually eating the animal as the pagans had thought He did.


5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

The Sabbath distinguished Israel from its pagan neighbors and whoever observed the Sabbath carelessly invited their own destruction at the hand of God.


6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

Again, this was taken out of context. The word abomination is a stronger word than unclean. It implies not just avoidance, but active, fierce repulsion. In the ancient days, it was thought that the fins and scales were appropriate for water creatures. Fish that have them are clean.

Water creatures that appear to mix categories - suggesting disorder - are not merely unclean, they are an abomination. There are good health reasons in being cautious in eating some of these creatures but, that was not the main reason they were classified as unclean.


7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

Again, that was another statement taken out of context and the full passage regarding this was not put in.

It started out in 21:17, which reads, "Speak to Aaron, saying, that no man of your descendants in succeeding generations, who has any defect may not approach to offer the bread of his God.

The whole passage from 17 to 24 refers to priests not having defects on their persons because they were held to a higher standard than the common folk. And approaching the altar of God means not to approach it to give the communion to people.


8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

How about that. Another one taken out of context.
In Leviticus 19:27, beards were standard among Iraelite men and shaving them or trimming them was a sign of mourning. The verse before that speaks against divination and soothsaying but I see that wasn't included.


9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

It was talking about animals with cloven hooves as being clean or an animal with uncloven hooves but chews its cud is clean. As for the swine part, my studies have brought me to the following conclusion:

The swine is the best known of the unclean animals and continues to be avoided by Jews and Muslims. The swine was mostly eaten by the Israelite neighbors in both the Old and New Testament periods. All the reasons as labeling an animal unclean fit the swine: 1) Inadequately cooked pork could transmit disease to humans. 2) pigs were sacrificed to pagan dieties. 3) because pork tasted good, refusing it would be a suitable test of faithfulness and obedience.


10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.

Leviticus 19:19 does not say anything about planting two different crops, it reads that you shall not mix the seeds together and plant them. It also states that you should not let your livestock breed with another kind and it also doesn't say anything about mixing threads it states you cannot mix linen with wool.

Holiness means purity, in three important areas. 1) animal husbandry 2)agriculture 3)domestic life. This principle also reflects reverence for God and what He has created.

Now let me fix the last part where Leviticus 24:10-16 is mentioned.

10-12 - means that blaspheming the Lord was forbidden. The question in this case was whether Israel's laws applied to those who were not full blooded Israelites. Note the care in recording that the offender's father was an Egyptian, as well as his mother's name and the name of their tribe.

13-14 - the offender was taken outside of the camp as a sign that he had been cut off from the people of Israel and so that his death would not defile the camp. "Lay their hands on his head" was a witness that they had the words of blasphemy and a sign that his sin was his own responsibility.

15 - His God can refer to the Creator or any pagan dieties that the person worshipped. Anyone who cursed the Creator bore the responsibility for the sin and was executed. If an Israelite worshipped a pagan god and blasphemed him then he was subject for the death penalty on those grounds.

16 - To blaspheme the name of the Lord was a different matter entirely. God had rescued the Israelites from Egypt and bound them to Himself in the covenant at Sinai. To blaspheme His name was rebellion. Rebellion, even against human governments, carried the death penalty.

There you go. You shouldn't put much stock into anything taken out of context. Although they they were funny, they weren't exactly true.

However, I am sure you will try to refute what I have written because it contradicts the funny stuff that was used in an attempt to discredit so take it for what it's worth. To me and other Christians it means a lot.

Also, remember that Jesus Loves You. Won't you love Him in return?

Amadeus1220 is a goner as well. I checked him out. You might know he is from mid Michigan, from where I escaped just out of college. Yikes, what a hotbed of waaaayyy far out religious zealots.