BellaOnline Forums Family Early Childhood Spanking illegal in California?

Yes, I enjoy discussing issues like this one since I'm an advocate for children.

As for being in someone else's shoes, I've worked with children who were out of control since I have always chosen to work at low-income schools where behavior problems can be an issue.

Interestingly enough, these children responded to the same things my own children do--they need to feel "heard" as well as loved and respected. Where does hitting kids fit into modeling love and respect? It simply doesn't. It's also interesting to note that there is a direct correlation between corporal punishment and violent behavior. Sure, there are exceptions this issue has been studied regarding prisoners who exhibit violent behavior. Also, I have always seen more hitting come from children who are hit compared to the children in our AP groups who are never struck in any way. I see a difference in the way they interact with their parents *and* in the way they interact with their peers and siblings.

I still am trying to fathom when people decide that it's okay to hit children. Most people hitting babies is wrong but something changes when they can walk--as if they all of the sudden should exhibit perfect behavior. How sad.

Some people in our country actually advocate hitting babies, by the way:

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Here is an exerpt from the Pearl's book:

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I wrote about the Pearls, there is a boycott against them in the homeschooling world.

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Great article Meg! I'd never heard of them before, thanks for the link! Their kind of punishment is considered abuse and is already against the law.

I guess it comes down to: What is child abuse? Some people think it is as little as a spank to the behind, others believe it is "whipping", "slapping" or "beating" a child still others may argue that the typical American diet or the overuse of media as a babysitter is a form of abuse.

Should they all be against the law?
And how are we going to enforce it?

I feel you are patonizing me here.
As a matter of fact I do teach a class of two to three year olds and have done for several years. I have years of experience with children, including the sick of all ages and the mentally ill. In a nutshell, most of my life has been spent caring for other people; in sickness and in health. Having been smacked as a child didn't stop me from being a good person and I have never 'bullied' anyone in my life. I advocate for fairness always.
I am also very well aware that other people's children behave differently at school than at home. That you cannot surely deny.
If you do have children, I wonder what sort of children they were... as I said, my first was a horror; A wonderful, intelligent boy but a real handful. For the first 2.7 yrs of his life he woke for 2 to 3 hrs every single night. Imagine how tired my husband and myself were as parents. Plus, I was breast feeding another baby by the 2.5 yr point. We were exhausted most of them time. I am human and as I said, I have smacked my sons bottom on the odd occasion. I did not abuse him, and smacking is not corporal punishment. I stand by my decision to do so on those occasions.
I do not believe in repeated smacking don't get me wrong. I respect that you do not approve of smacking but you must also respect that others do feel it necessary at times. As I said, circumstances, children, adults, whatever - all have a bearing on how things work out at any given time.
And speaking of research.... yes, I am open minded and yes I will read up a little. However, having seen how society has deteriorated over the last ten years or so because of the rights for this group, that group etc., I wonder how much good our 'good intentions' actually are.

It's sickening that whipping babies is considered good to some people. I'm not from the US and I have been living in Asia for over 12yrs now so I'm not in tune with how things are in the UK but I certainly have heard about some weird cults where you guys live. It can only be described as sick. They should be locked away for life for even suggesting that sort of thing; it's insane.

On the subject of child abuse, I think it means different things to different people.

Child abuse to me is not only a physical thing. You can be a person who never ever smacks a child and yet subject that child to emotional abuse - and this can be in many forms. Often the abuser is not even aware of the damage they are causing. I suffered emotional abuse myself and have been suicidal 3 times in my 45 yrs of life and have had years of therapy to undo the damage done by my mother. Strangely enough it was my father who spanked me. My mother used emotional tactics to control me and they are what scarred me (and before anyone challenges that - 3 psychiatrists have said exactly the same thing and they were good ones (I have a medical background as well as a teaching one) - sorry - I just want to be clear here about medical knowledge ha ha)) Having been through therapy and come out the other side a changed woman I now realise that she never meant me any harm but even so, she caused me some huge problems.
To be honest I feel that emotional abuse is far more serious because it's harder to spot and often doesn't become apparent for years.
I had a friend who's parents seemed great on the surface and yet the mother put my friend under such emotional stress that she committed suicide at age 16. My husband's friend committed suicide age 16 (in front of my husband at school) after having been put under so much pressure by his parents that he was terrified of failing his exams and so failing his parents.

What laws are in place for these sort of people? How the hell do you enforce them? I have no idea. I just know that from what I have learned myself; spanking occasionally (light not hard)usually ends when a child is old enough to be disciplined by words. Emotional abuse continues for years and years.
What to do?

[quote=JanZeiger]
As for being in someone else's shoes, I've worked with children who were out of control since I have always chosen to work at low-income schools where behavior problems can be an issue.

I come from that low income bracket of people you talk about. Low income does not automatically mean that there will be more behavioural problems. I certainly knew of many 'bad' eggs at my school, but the good far outweighed them thank goodness.

I now work at a very prestigious school and I have to say that I am shocked at some of the behaviour I have seen. In fact, some of the worst behaviour comes from the sons of ministers! No joke!

I think that you and I could have some very heated discussions (and some very productive ones too)Jan

No offence intended and hope none taken. We're two very similar people in the fact that we have strong views and two very different backgrounds I think.

Dolly Dimple~
I am heart broken by the pain you and your husband have experienced. You are in my prayers for long lasting and continued recovery, good for you getting the help you needed to get past the issues and forgive your mother!
We all make mistakes, not one of us is perfect and I personally don't know one person who sets out to screw up their child on purpose, we all to the best we can with the tools we were given and I'm sure your mother is no exception.

I noticed that you are new to the forum boards, thank you for choosing early childhood to make your debut...WELCOME WELCOME :-)
CYn

I was only speaking of the case here in the states. Unfortunately, our low-income schools often are filled with children who are acting out. Not because there is anything wrong with the children but because they're needs haven't been met at home OR at school. These kids face all sorts of issues and many have learned to be "tough" which transfers over to school and affects their behavior.

When I got out of college, I got my first choice--a low income school that none of the other new teachers wanted. They actually apologized and felt bad for me because they didn't understand why ANY teacher would want to be there.

I'm talking about having kids come to my classroom who had thrown desks, etc during the previous year and having them work well with me. Why? Because of my discipline style. I was the teacher who got many "difficult" kids because of my gift for dealing with them.

I have two children and, believe me, my oldest is challenging. He's a gifted, visual/spatial extrovert!! He's a blast but man oh man...is he ever strong-willed. But that's okay. I'm hwith him during the day and our bond is strong. He's involved with activities in the community and does great behavior-wise as long as he's not bored, etc...

I forget which positive discipline author said this but it's wonderful and so true:

"Every misbehavior is an unmet need."

Here are some of my favorite discipline books in case anyone wants to discipline without hurting their kids:

How to Talk So Kids will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk

Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline

The Discipline Book (by Dr. Sears)

And sorry if you thought I was patronizing you. I'm merely an advocate for children and feel the need to speak for them on this issue.

Thank you for sharing the titles Jan! I'll definitely check them out. I'm glad the children have you in their corner...you are a force to be reckoned with my friend I'm sure God is smiling down on you, for the work you are doing to protect His little ones!

Next to hating the idea of hurting my children...my biggest argument with spanking is this: How can I possibly expect my children to keep their "hands to themselves" if I can't do the same? And believe me...with 2 two year olds it is already a struggle enough for me to keep them from mauling eachother without me setting a bad example! They are like to puppies wrestling around...which soon escalates to a brawl. Oh my, have I got my hands full!

Cyn