BellaOnline Forums News and Politics Women's Issues Rape and dress

We have been having debates in India about how women dress. This is the result of the veil issue that had gripped attention in many parts of the world.

Most of those who favored veil said that a woman dressed attractively was more susceptible to rape. To this one woman gave a beautiful reply. She said that instead of women wearing veils, the men who think like that should cover their eyes.

self contol is a 50-50 thing. Each side must take responsibility for their attitudes and behaviour.

Rape is not a 50 50 thing, nor is self control when it come to rape. Rape is not sexual, it is the most violent show of power over people, most often women, but not necessarily.
It is NEVER a matter of self control nor dress for women!!!

...Hang on - I agree, yes, but CDM was merely discussing the succeptibility of women to rape.

There is no doubt in my mind that Rape should be wiped off the face of the planet, but unfortunately, whilst there are men,and women, and sex, this is impossible.
However, here in the UK, if you go out any evening, in any town, you will see young women drinking too much, behaving in lewd and provocative ways, and dressing in a manner which at best, could be described as indiscreet, at worst, downright blatantly and overtly indecent....
The incidence of sexual assault is rising, because women get drunk, remember nothing, then realise they did something regretful...
Teenage pregnancy is at the highest level in beurope, here in the UK, and girls are far too often sexually aware and mature, far too early.

Quite frankly, it could be argued by some that through their behaviour, attitude and dress - they 'ask for it'.
That's what I meant by accepting responsibility for attitude and behaviour.

Rape is, as you say, the worst and most heinous of offences. But we weren't actually right into that subject - just the atttitudes to dress, the veil and Western different views on that....

Just to clarify....

But Alexandra, rape is NEVER about sex. No matter how women dress or act. What you are saying is men simply cannot control themselves and therefore sexually act out in the form of rape. If the woman/girls are too drunk or stoned to refuse, then we could possibly call it date rape, but even that is putting the blame on the victim and would be a real stretch. What is happening in the UK has been happening here in the US as welll. Teens are maturing earlier, being sexually aware earlier, etc. but that does not make rape anything but a violent crime that has nothing to do with sex except in the way it is committed.

It's not just women or girls who get drunk that are being raped. And just because a woman gets drunk and dresses sexy doesn't mean she is going to get raped.

Many children and teens and women are raped by family members, or friends, or strangers and it has NOTHING to do with alcohol, dress or anything like that.

"The incidence of sexual assault is rising, because women get drunk, remember nothing, then realise they did something regretful...
Teenage pregnancy is at the highest level in beurope, here in the UK, and girls are far too often sexually aware and mature, far too early."
I don't see how this has to do with rape. A woman or a man who chooses to drink and act provocativly and go home with a man or woman and possibly does not remember what they did, or they regret what they did is slightly different than being RAPED. Even if you are drunk or stoned, you still know what you are doing. You still can say no. That is a matter of self control.

Teenagers becoming sexually aware and active earlier and earlier is happening all over the world. Here in Cananda, in the US, UK... everywhere... that doesn't neccesarily mean they will be raped. I don't agree with very young people having sex, but that doesn't cause them to be raped.

And I agree with pondlady, rape is never about sex. It's about control and power.

So I guess the original point of this conversation goes back to - a woman dressed attractively was more susceptible to rape. Is that really true? I don't know. Personally I don't really think so. Yes many men are more attracted to women who dress in certain ways, but does that really result in rape? Think about all the women (and men) who were sexually abused as children... I'm sure they weren't dressing provactively, or getting to drunk to remember anything.

In SOME cases, yes some women and I suppose some men do put themselves in risky situations which may involve drugs and alcohol and may lead to "date rape" or something that they regret doing. But I do not believe that a way a women dresses or acts leads to rape. Dress and attitude leads to sex.

My rape was a case of date rape. And I can honestly say, that had I not put myslef in the compromising situation to begin with, the man that took advantage of me would not have been able to do so.

Did that give him the right to rape me NO!!! But it took me a long time to come to terms with the difference between blaming myself and accepting repsonsibility for my actions (a very thin line for an 18 year old girl who had been a virgin up until that point.)

I do think there is a difference between date rape and violent "regular" rape. I do believe that in at least a portion of date rapes (not all, mind you - espcially not those occuring in long time sexual relationships) that the rape does have something to do with sex. I beleive my rape was mostly about sex. I believe my rapist was just callous enough that he didn't want to hear "no" because he wanted to "get off" and didn't want to be left hanging. A real man would have sucked it up. The pain he would have suffered would have been nothing compared to what I have gone through these past 15 years. <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

But "on the street" rapes are not about sex, they are about violenece, power, and sometimes even stranger issues. And one never knows what may set off a rapist - it may be a woman's blue eyes - (think about Ted Bundy). So are we just going to keep women with blue eyes off the streets? <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Both are crimes, and the victim is never to blame - and a woman has a right to wear or do as she likes. But she must be careful, too.

You make complete sense!

Very well put.

Let us take an example- Say you have a yard in which you dump all the trash. Somebody walking by also throws some trash. Will you call that person a criminal?

There are some women, who show no respect to their body themselves. We have a new dancer in India. She is getting banned in different states for performing stage shows. Her actions on the stage leave nothing to imagination. But when she talks on the television, she says that she would do all this and it is the duty of the police to control the crowd, which gets excited by her actions. She also says that she is not responsible for exciting men. She makes statements that defy logic.

Such people invite others. Please come and attack me.

You watch a cute kid smiling and laughing and you go and hug the child. That is positive emotion on both the sides. The earlier instance I cited is negative on both the sides.

The larger issue is- do men have a right to ask women to cover themselves because otherwise they may get excited, is unacceptable. It is simple blackmail.

A man in the grip of sexual excitement will rape a most decent looking woman. A man with evil mind will do that at every opportunity. They find sex with woman as their right.
Under any circumstance, I believe that rape is most reprehensible and a rapist must be punished most severely. I would prefer castration and jail. Nothing else.

Kindly visit some teen forums. Find out what 11 and 12 year girls are asking about sex, STDs etc. after reading few such posts, I thought that the world is losing all morality. If this continues, concepts of chastity, relationship, love etc will not be left at all. what will be left will be orgies.

I'm sorry, this thread has taken a twist... I was responding originally, purely and simply to CDM's question about dress-sense. I in no way intended to either steer the subject away from that, or transform it into a discussion specifically about rape....

I echo every single sentiment against rape, and unconditionally concur with everyone's opinion of it.

But that isn't specifically what the thread was originally about.

It was about dress sense - and the extremes thereof....

.....So shall we get back to that, or would it be worth re-naming the thread? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Coming back to original thread, in my opinion, unless provoked excessively, no man can say that he raped a woman because of her dress. That would be atrocious.

Rape cannot be provoked by a woman no matter her dress. She can be covered with a canvas tent and if a man wishes to rape her, he will do so. It happens daily where women are covered with something from head to toe. It happens when young women are walking around in not much more than a belt. It happens to 85 yo grandmothers who are sitting in their houses with jeans and a t-shirt on. Dress has nothing to do with rape. Not ever.

That means that the justification of veil is not valid as far as rape is concerned.