BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Atheist Can Atheism REALLY be defended?

Samten I am really glad you joined in. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You did try to explain away the Absolute Moral Laws that I have been talking about for a long time by only one word,
Empathy

You said:


First of all you, I think, you still don't really know what Absolute Moral Laws are. But let's assume for a momenth that Empathy is the answer and sets the Moral Values. But by what you have said "most" or, (some people lack of)this developement , not all humans are capable of empathy. So how can you say that if people lack empathy they are wrong? I mean are you saying the more someone has evolved the more empathy they have, therefore they set the standard? I still don't really see how you solve this problem. A person can't set absolute moral laws because then other people can't call their actions wrong. It doesn't matter how much they have devoloped empathy, they can still be wrong. I have written alot more about this above. So please reread it later.

Then you went on saying


I found this paragraph alittle confusing for a couple of reasons. Let me tell you why. Based on what you are saying since we have evolved and developed empathy, rape is wrong but you would also have to agree that if humans didn't have empathy rape wouldn't be wrong. But rape is objectively wrong if humans had empathy or not. So that is a weak arguement. You still haven't shown us how atheism have a standard of Obsolute Moral Laws. And for some reason you said Christians find it morally right to rape their wifes. But go through my writtings and tell me where I wrote Christians set Moral Laws. God sets moral laws. So it doesn't matter if a Christian or an atheist say rape is ok because it is not them that set the Moral Laws. It would still be wrong even if they think it is right.

So far athism hasn't really been able to give any reasonable answers to, Who sets Moral Laws? and also Where do we come from?. These two questions are very important to our lives everyday. If moral values come from empathy then I think Hitler would have argued the Aryans were the most evolved race therefore they were right when they killed people but we would clearly disagree with that because we know that killing someone is morally wrong. But why is killing someone wrong? Athism doesn't give us any answer to it other than it just is. But as a theist, I can clearly see why it is wrong. It is wrong because man is made in the Image of God. And killing him is wrong. Theism gives as far more better and logical explaination than atheism does.

Please, you Christians, take yourselves back to your own forums. I know you feel as if we somehow are deficient unless we believe as you do, but we are not. We will most likely not change your minds and we don't even try. Please stop trying to defend your beliefs here.
You will not 'convert' anyone and frankly, I'm tired of listening.

I don't believe that anyone is deficient. I certainly don't think you should believe what I believe in, otherwise you are deficient. I think everyone should think logically and atleast try to. I have given good reasons why atheism is not logical. Now it is up you to decide what you want to think. It is up to you to defend atheism and give us good reason why I am wrong. Or you can just ignore me and say christians can't be logical even though it might look like they are right or you can maybe say that I am right. You choose.


Well maybe I want to defend my beliefs because I think it is true and can be defended. I am not sure about atheism. Some say it doesn't need to be defended. Ya sure if it is not true, why would you want to defend it. It would be pointless trying to defend something that is not true.


I can't change what someone believes. It is not upto me to do that. I am just telling you what is more logical. It is your choice. And if you are tired of listening then I am not sure how to help you there, other than tell you not to listen.

Theism is no more logical than athesim. The belief in a God is in itself, illogical.


Captain.

The most difficult thing I can imagine is someone who is logical trying to argue with someone who isn't but believes him- or herself to be.

Then show me the logic in atheism.

Ah, reverse psychology. It's the new thing with fundies nowadays. When you can't defend your argument you just accuse your opponent of doing what you are doing. That way they are distracted, disarmed and stop challenging you.

Then you can have a nice pointless altercation. Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is no it isn't.

Look, noone has to explain or defend ANYTHING to you. Since you are in an Atheist forum, it is you who needs to defend your delusion.

All you can do is repeat the same mumbo jumbo over and over again hoping that someone will just throw in the towel and cry uncle. There is no thinking going on here and you are just blowing smoke.

Oh really aredant . Just blowing smoke, eh? Well is that why you are not refuting my arguements and just started calling names. Now do me a favor please. Read my arguements and refute them. Instead of calling people fundies, show them how they are wrong.

You said:


First of all, I think you have completely misunderstood why I asked that. Hey that is maybe why we should read all the data before making a conclusion. I asked it because most of atheist fundies doesn't want to admit they are wrong and are just argueing in circles. And I was not accusing them of anything, I just told them to either show me the logic in atheism or refute my arguements and show me that I am wrong.

You said:


Of course I have said earlier, I am not asking anyone to defend something that can't be defended because it is irrational and illogical. Now if someone believes that atheism is logical then there is a reason to defend it.

Then you said:

Well first of all, If you are saying that atheism is true, then the burden of proof is not on me but on you. It is your hypothesis, not mine. That is how a debate works.
And I have shown why atheism doesn't make any sense and doesn't provide us any rational reason to believe it is true. Now it is your turn to defend it. And if atheism doesn't need a defense, I am not even sure why you are here.

I think you've just made my original point.

Yes I've read your stuff, and although it is well written, it's all backwards and I totally disagree with you. It does no good to explain it to you because you just flip it over again like a pancake. What's the point? You sound like a computer program that just rearranges my own arguments.

Because you are a believer you are not capable of understanding what non-belief is. I cannot blame you I suppose. When I was a Catholic I had no idea what Atheism was and such a concept was completely alien to me. I only knew that non-catholics were to be pitied because I was taught that they were all going to hell. I was very ignorant.

It always a drag to argue with religious people, I'm afraid.