BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Atheist Atheists and Fathers

I think it's an interesting topic, and there's a lot more to it than could be covered in an article. Also, I admit I was not at my article-writing best, since this week I come to you from the Land of Quitting Smoking.
So, how much influence do you think the relationship with our parents has on our faith? Or on our beliefs and actions in general? Are we completely determined in the early years, or is it totally up to us what we become? (I doubt my take on this will be any surprise to anyone who's been around on here.)

I hesitate to comment on the parental thing simply because the word influence is commonly given a great deal too much weight, but congratulations on quitting smoking!

I was just discussing this with my husband the other night.
I was a child of two heavy smokers, and I have never smoked in my life. Both also drank heavily, but I avoid it now mostly out of fear of doing the same. But all my older (over 18) children smoke, after all promising me they would NEVER start.

My husbands' older brother, both he and hiw wife never have smoked, but ALL their children either smoke or use chewing tobacco. I think as a rebelling gesture on their part though from being raised in an overly strict environment, as soon as they moved out they all started smoking.

Donna, an ex nun and I, an escapee from the strictest protestant Dutch Reformed church in existence, discuss this often. I used to think we either embraced the values of our parents or eschewed them completely. As I have aged, I rethink that often. I hope that thinking people can take the best and the worst of how they were parented and chose what works for them. Both of us totally threw out all the hypocrisy and balderdash of organized religion. We both feel sad that so many thousands of people are being led by unscrupulous leaders who lead only for their own or their organization's betterment.

That said, many or most organized religions, really have a moral code - most of them alike - that serve their followers well, if the code were followed.

And the saddest of current religious thinking is that one cannot be spiritual without being religious.

Just goes to show you how desperate Xtians are in trying to explain the existence of atheists. They just don't want to accept the explanation that we atheists, as healthy as anyone else, just don't see any good reason to believe in divine beings!

I have a great relationship with my Dad - far better than I ever had with my mom, or with my fundie Xtian brother and his family. But I will admit that I do have a problem with authoritarian patriarchal regimes, whether they are religious, political, social, whatever. Now THERE'S something that's really unhealthy...

I totally agree with that. Everyone makes mistakes and poor choices. We see examples all the time of people who don't learn from their own past or from the mistakes of others. It doesn't get anyone very far if we don't think for ourselves. It's important to get to a stage where we can look at our childhood experiences objectively, keep the good ideas - the ones that built up our self esteem, etc - and rethink the ones that didn't work so well.

I joined Bella a few days ago, mostly because of the existence of this forum, so I guess it's time to join in. My first reaction to your article is that the whole idea of rebellion or unresolved issues centering around the father figure is a Freudian concept which has been pretty much consigned to the garbage heap of history, along with most of Freud's other theories. But I'm sure it will hang on as long as it's useful for people who just can't deal with atheism in a reasoned way. Interestingly, for years I regarded religion as just a way of hanging on to Daddy, but finally gave that up as a pretty poor theory. Freud should have done the same.

I was lucky enough to grow up in a family where religion was completely absent. In fact, I don't think I ever heard of Jesus until I was in elementary school and was told by another student that I had killed Jesus, apparently because of my Jewish name. So my first lesson about religion was bigotry. Way to go, believers!

When I first thought of writing this article, it occurred to me that perhaps the idea was dated. In fact, I'm sure I was wishing for it to be dated. A little digging around, though, and I found it wasn't. And, yes, a lot of ideas that should be trashed hang around past their expiration date just because they work as a defense, no matter how poor.
And I think it is true that some religious people use it as a way to cling to the feeling of being proctected and blameless.
I have a problem with anything one could label a "regime", patriarchal or not.
"It's important to get to a stage where we can look at our childhood experiences objectively"...I wish so much that more people believed that instead of looking into childhood for an excuse. The things that happen to us then can shape us, but only as much as we allow. The belief that we're powerless against it is dangerous.
In my experience, an overly strict childhood is one of the worst things that can happen to someone, at least as long as we're talking about a person who doesn't stop for serious self-awareness and perspective (which, sadly, we often are when we're discussing people).
And Pondlady, will you tell me how you define "spiritual"? (Difficult to ask that question here, because in type it could come across as implying something or being snippy, but it's only that there are some words I like to get a personal definition on.)
As far as religious moral codes go, I can't say there isn't going to be some good in many or even most. But there's also going to be some bad (and in some cases plenty). So, since a person is going to need discernment to sort it through anyway, why not just build the whole thing independently?
And the other kid telling you that you killed Jesus? The first thing that popped into my head was, "Man, that kid's parents were doing him a real favor in the psyche department".
And on that note, I'll say this- while I do believe, or even know, that we can get over anything that happens to us as children, it is the job of parents to make our transition into rational, healthy adults as smooth as possible. That does not include teaching us to call other children murderers. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Spirituality for me is a deep connection with any living or non living organic entity, not just one, but all; it tells me that I am part of a collective unconscious that stretches throughout prehistory to the future yet unwritten, that I am a thinking, feeling being, of utmost importance to both myself and to every other creature on or not on the planet. That I and I alone are responsible for my actions and I realize that my actions have consequences, not only for myself but also to all other creatures who inhabit this space we call our world. Our interconnectedness is all pervasive from rocks to trees to plants to people and has been that way throughout time.

Wow! - that is a very buddhast was of thinking....Makes alot of sense to me <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />