BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Atheist Atheism

First of all, I would like to say I am not Phil Fernandes but I have taken a couple of courses with him and we have done lots of debates toghether and we did write a couple of debates together. The topic above would be one of them. We do use lots the same arguements but we are not the same people.

Ok now I would like to respond to some of these "challenges".
First of all you are saying God can't be all-loving if he kills people, right? First of all, justice require punishment and sometimes punishment is given because of justice and love at the same time. For example, if your son/daughter doesn't do what you want him or her to do and they disobey you. Wouldn't you punish them? yes. But does that mean you don't love them? I don't think so. You punish them because they disobeyed you and you love them that is why you tell them what do in the first place because you know what you did is for their benifits. And at other times, it is not God that kills you because He wants to. For example if you tell your child that "don't do drugs" because it can kill you but of course it is up to them to choose. And he or she goes and takes lots of drugs and dies or is really sick but is it your fault that they died? No, you loved him/her that is why you told to not take drugs. They choose to take drugs and died. Does that decreese your love. No. You love them but they choose to do whatever they want. God created humans and give them free-will because he loved them. He give the egyptions the free will to choose to. They choose not to, they got the consequences.



First of all if you read the book of Job, it was not God that put Job through hell but God allowed Satan to test Job's faith and loyalty to God. But you are also forgetting that Job was only tested till he could take it but God intervened in the middle when Job was getting bitter against him. Have you heard of the saying that, "what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger". Job was also given twice as much as everything he had in the beginning.

First of all it, Noah was not saved because of God showing favoratism or anything but if you read the bible, it says, " Noah was rightous man, blameless among the people of his times...". Here is why everyone else was killed," The Lord saw how great man's wickeness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time". Justice requires punishment and they were punished because of what they had done. That sounds pretty fair to me.

I've sent God_Loves_You a message about it, but I want to put it here in the forum, too.
What you posted was presented as totally your own, and you are now revealing that isn't true (you would have to).
Also, if there is a mention of someone else writing some of the argument, Phil didn't mention it (unless I missed that).
I'm giving you some time to respond to me, in the private message or here, before I take the argument down.

Amendment: I'm in the process of determining whether I have to take it down. If not, I'll leave it up, now that we all know it isn't yours.

Impressive company you keep there God Loves You. I do however have one question: The introduction you aided him in writing was posted on his website, along with the completed debate, no later than September 4th of this year, yet you indicated that you were submerged in writing it September 29th. This seems an odd little time swoop.

Oh, and he's published it in paperback form (in 2000) without your name attached. You might want to contact an attorney.

And there's this-
The debate was originally held and published to the website in 1997. In 2000, it was touched up on the site, and also published in book form.
No one contributed to the words of Dr. Phil Fernandes.
As I said, I am going to leave it up here if I can, now that proper credit has been established.

Jenna, thanks for your hard work. I appreciate it. It certainly is easier to use someone else's words, but doing our own thinking and writing, although difficult, is like learning to discover and refine our own philosophies.

I can't imagine working through some of the things I've worked through without writing. I'm not quite as good at speaking, though I can get going pretty well if I'm interested, but something- I would almost use the word "magical"- happens between thinking and writing.
Sometimes I just start typing, or writing longhand, and all this information I had in my head that just hadn't fully connected yet all snaps together.
I'm the kind to have firm beliefs, but I can't imagine that trait separate from the way I cement them.
All right, I just went off a little there. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, maybe just a little bit. I agree, tho. When we must write, we are forced to separate the nonsense from the sense. Helps discipline our ever spinning brains.

I've never met a christian who really wanted a debate and you're no exception to my observation. You simply want to validate your own beliefs.

There is no christian god. It is simply a belief. How can you debate a belief? You believe in it. I do not. How can you debate that?

That's the whole point of aetheism. Lack of religious belief in "God". Or Jesus. Or Allah. Or whomever.
To reiterrate what I posted in another thread:

Atheism doesn't preclude perceiving order in the universe or preclude the perception of a life force or energy.

Atheism simply indicates the lack of belief in an anthrophomorphic "God" deity.

End of story. It's not about science. It's not about arguing over Biblical excerpts. It's about one's perception about the organizing principles of the universe.

There is no God. God does not exist. That is atheism.

There is nothing to debate. Is there?

Excellent!


I said once before in a post that I think it somehow makes people who believe in God, Jesus, Allah or whomever feel their beliefs are somehow lessened because others don't believe as they do. Maybe it makes some of them afraid too?

These beliefs go deep, and have many roots. As soon as one sliver of doubt creeps in every aspect of a persons life can be affected. Sometimes their religion can be the main aspect of who they are as a person.

If you show any doubts about what they believe it seems to just drive them crazy. They will keep on you and on you trying to change how you believe, even if you tell them nicely to please leave you alone you are not interested in hearing about it. You usually have to be rude to them to get them to finally get the message. Which is sad.