BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Catholicism Mary

...aaaah.....now there's a can of worms indeed....!

I was given to understand by my own Catholic Priest that as far as he had understood and been taught, Jesus DID have siblings.
When I incredulously asked - "REALLY??!?" he responded - "Yes. Why not?"

My main gripe about all of this is - why did Joseph suddenly drop off the edge of the map?
He sacrificed so much and did all he could to be a suitable father to God Incarnate. I am more than a little miffed, on his behalf, tht his role seems to have been sidelined and relegated to one of a second-rate support....
Whatever happened to him?

No wonder some fathers feel they are just sperm-banks or convenient wallets - If Mary is supposed to be a good Christian mother's role model..... see what I mean?

NO WAY! I can't believe a priest told you that! I went through years and years of bible study and no one ever mentioned this - that would really cause some confusion about who was the son of God - and if they were Josephs's sons, wouldn't that be adultry since Mary was married to God (and technically her own son since they are the trinity)

Frankly, since there are many of these "holes" in the bible, kids will sometimes ask some obvious questions and nuns simply don't answer them. Priests come up with what ever sounds the best to them. Often, they discourage the asking of such questions. However, many of the priests I ever met were rather philosophical about the whole thing since usually they were very educated and sometimes very open minded. And they often had some of the best dirty jokes to tell. (I think I was about 10 years old at the time)

I think the Vatican would probably favor the "don't ask" tact.


I hear Joseph ended up selling used RVs somewhere in the Beccha Valley.

Hi Alexandra,
I once completely stumped a priest by bringing up the point of the word 'virgin' and making reference to the mention of brothers and sisters. He told me the brothers and sisters were Joseph's - from a previous marriage, and that he dropped out of the picture because he was old, and died.

So I went back to the word 'virgin' - saying that I did not believe in a mysterious virginal conception, and suggested that either Joseph was Jesus' 'natural' father, (because bethrothed couples often had sexual intimacy before marriage, as betrothal was considered to be much the same thing) or perhaps Mary had been the victim of rape, and Joseph married her to protect her good name.

Of course the priest did not accept this, so I pointed out that she could not have been physically 'virginal' after the birth of Jesus anyway. They 'sacred' hymen, which was the accepted proof of a virgin, would have been well and truly gone!

I then added that I believed that the Church had made a big thing of this for the simple reason that a natural conception and birth would have made Jesus no different from any of us. He'd not have been 'God in the flesh' - but just an ordinary man, though no doubt a great prophet and teacher of his day.

And I believe that is the most that he was.

Patience.

"The Catholic Church has sanitized Mary. They make it a sinful thing for even a married woman to engage in "carnal" activity." This statement was made by a professor in a wonderful course I took in college called "Religion and Truth."

The professor was a visiting dean from Trinity College in Ireland.

He spoke about the Church's attitude towards women and sex and talked about the awful Magadalene Laundries, a place of punishment for young village girls in Ireland. They were sent there by their parish priests for "acting interested in sex." There was a documentary on the laundries and the stories of the survivors were heart-wrenching.

He said that the Church made Mary celibate in marriage and a virgin. No woman could live up to her ideal, not even a married woman. Thus all women were sinful.

Professor O'Leary believed that Mary did have children by Joseph. He said that sex is seen as sinful by the Church as a means of controling women.

I wonder if that's why they call it MANipulation...? (just kidding)...
But Religious Authorities are damanbly guilty for massaging the facts and using the scriptures to control the masses - and for the unbalanced, biased and at times, downright savage way thay have turned all women into whores or saints. There is no in between, it seems.....
Read 'Mysogyny - The world's oldest prejudice'. Brilliant book.
Written by a man,by the way.....

Oh nice, as I see you are so easy to talk about your religion.

I think some great leaders were born in this way as Hitler and Chingese Mongolian leader.
Pardon if it was offensive but maybe it's a fact for leadership!

Firefly, you are confusing theology. The Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with the Virgin birth of Jesus. It has to do with the sanctifying work of God in Mary's life. They are two different events.

On the subject of Jesus' "brothers" it is a problem with English translation. The original Greek word adelphos, meaning brother, was used. However, adelphos does not just mean blood brothers born of the same parents. Rather, adelphos was used to describe brothers not born of the same parents, like a halfbrother or stepbrother. The word also described other relationships like cousins, nephews, etc. For example in Genesis 13:8 and 14:14-16 the word adelphos was used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot; however, these two men were not brothers, but uncle and nephew.

There is one theory in theology that explains the brothers and sisters issue quite logically.

Joseph is described as a man quite a bit older that the BVM. It is quite possible he was a widower with children from his first wife. In that case, the Blessed Mother would have been their stepmother. Makes more sense than the cousin's argument to me.

I don't understand why Jesus would be entrusted to a creaky old man. I always envision as a vibrant man willing to dedicate his life to God.

Forgive me, but I think (if I am not mistaken) that there is confusion here abou the Immaculate Conception.
Mary, is the Immaculate Conception, not Jesus. When mary appeared to Bernadette at Lourdes, and Bernadette asked her who she was, mary replied "I am the Immaculate Conception". But many take this to mean that she was a virgin. This is a mistake. It doesn't mean she was a virgin. It means she was born without Original Sin.
The First Catholic Council of Rome, decided in about 400AD that Christ was not only the Son of God, but that he WAS God, and that he should henceforth be regarded as the saviour of the World, God Incarnate, come to earth as Man, born of a woman.
But hold on... Sex was regarded as a sin. Yes indeedy, to fornicate was regarded as being a sin, so it was that all of mankind is born with original Sin, because that's how humans are made. So every human being is already equipped with Sin.
But that would be impossible for jesus, wouldn't it?
So they decided that his Mother (the word translated into 'Virgin' from ancient texts actually just means 'Young Woman') also had to be free of sin. I mean, it stands to reason, doesn't it? How can Jesus be born of original Sin? So they decided, in 460AD that, not only had Mary been born free of Original Sin, but that she had also never "known" a Man!
However, Jesus DID have siblings, because they are mentioned later in the Bible and referred to by him.

Immaculate conception. see here...

Did jesus have siblings? See here...

I can speak with some authority, because I have had a very close connection with Catholicism throughout my life. And what an experience THAT was - !!