BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Bible Basics Paul - Who was he and was he correct?

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I have read the book. Jeez, men throughout the ages, stink!!

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Hi Carennedy,
As you know, I am no longer a Christian, but I will try to help you out on this from a Christian perspective.

Remember that this was 2000 years ago and women in most societies and cultures were considered to be less than men. It was even believed by some that women did not have souls.

Jesus, in his entire life, did not put women down but treated them as equals I believe. If this were not so, I'm sure there wouldn't have been so many who followed him and even stayed faithful to him to the very last, when all the men, except John, deserted him.

Paul was an entirely different kettle of fish. He never knew Jesus personally, so never came under his influence. He retained the old ways and the old ideas on many issues - especially women.

His words on love (In corinthians)are so different from his other writings that it has been suggested that these were actually more likely to have been the words of Jesus, repeated by others and taken up by Paul.

You once told me not to judge God by the people who represent him (priests and other christians)and I think the same thing applies here. Don't allow your faith in the Divine to be shaken by those who were his human teachers and servants. If there is a loving divinity who cares about us all equally, then these ancient humans were not reflecting this divine love. They were expressing their own beliefs and prejudices and passing them off as God's teachings and ideas.

Look only to the one who truly reflected the love of God - Jesus. There you have all.

Patience.

Thanks Patience.

I haven't stopped believing in God, just having issues with him regarding women. I do agree with you though, I should not allow Paul's attitude regarding women to reflect that of Gods.

Carennedy...

Understand....

GOD never had or even HAS, if you will, issues with women. This is an entirely male-human aspect of so-called Christians and followers of a faith.

GOD never gave an unequal assessment - it all came out of the mouths of those who absolutely believed they were doing his will...It has existed as a prejudice against women well since before Christianity emerged, and has pesisted in many ways, to this day. Get the book, read it, and weep.

I'm so with yopu there...... I was just thinking the other day how violently barbaric patriarical socities are compared to those where women have a voice.

Whether Paul intended it or not his writings, which were his personal opinion, have been used to repress women and persecute gays, so I don't have much love for the chap!

From what I learned in my J-C Heritage class, Paul was one of the major players in the great 3-4th century debate on whether you had to become Jewish before becoming Christian. He was on the No side. Historically, that would mean that he never met Jesus. Instead he was originally one of Rome's huntsmen in trying to wipe out Christianity. Then came the big light on the road to Damascus (it's been 30 years since the course, so please correct Bible story details if they come up) and he switched sides only to find himself embroiled in another controversy. Given his background, his choice of sides makes sense. I think that in his letters, he was trying to set down the distinctions between the rules of behavior to be followed by his side and traditional Jewish laws of behavior. There are a lot of things he simply states without giving any reason for them, particularly any reasons that can be defended on basics like The Golden Rule. As you can guess, I'm no fan of his. I think he made the Christian faith more rigid and more insistent that it was the only way, which led to further stiff-necked controversies that led to great schisms, like how to hold your hand in doing the sign of the cross.

DJC

The most politically correct, respectful and vociferous advocate for the rights of women, in the New Testament, was actually Jesus Christ himself.
By saving the woman from being stoned, by having Women in his entourage, and by revealing himself to a woman first and foremost, after his resurrection, shows an altogether too uncommon deference to the female, in any religious tome. He was often criticised for his attitude toards them but he never budged, and stood his ground.
That his followers, disciples and representatives have consciously since, worked towards the repression of women in Religion - and in general - is a damning shame, and a clear insult to, and defiance of, His teachings.

I wonder if Jesus would have got on with Paul if they had met up? I think it is doubtful!

I think a direct and personal influence would definitely have altered Paul's general outlook somewhat....But Jesus would probably have just rolled his eyes and thought,
"Cripes, here we go again! Another one!!"