BellaOnline Forums Sports Wrestling Sting and Samoa Joe, huh?

So Sting's partner is going to be Samoa Joe at the PPV? That could be very interesting.

Also what did Jeff Jarrett mean about Savage being in the looney bin? <img src="/images/graemlins/irish.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/easter.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/beamedup.gif" alt="" />

I think he was taking a shot at Savage because he is soooooo out of shape yet demanded CRAZY money to be in TNA. Obviously TNA said no.

And saying Hall couldn't be there because his second ex left him again was sort of lame. So he can't wrestle because of that? Jarrett...*sigh*

I love having Joe on Sting's side. A rehashed WCW star would have KILLED the whole match. Now I am interested in seeing it.

Nash is really ticking me off saying a mediocre old big guy could beat every one of the young smaller guys. That is exactly what WWE thinks for real. Unless Nash puts over the X Division on the way out, this is a dangerous and bad angle.

I think there's a larger problem here. The X Division guys are the future of the company and of the business and TNA should be building around THEM (Williams, Daniels, Styles, Sabin, Shelley, Joe, etc.) NOT around old WCW main eventers who won't be around in 5-10 years. Sting, Steiner, and Jarrett occupying the main event slots does nothing for the young stars or the company.

And Christian should be in the main event picture too, given more time to cut promos and have matches....he is the NWA World Heavyweight Champion afterall.....

-Martman

I don't think that with the build up they had, Christian would have made any sense to be Sting's partner. To me, that would have been a huge let down. Champion or not, Main event or not, Christian vs Jarrett yet again would not be very entertaining to me.

The problem is Jarrett is always going to be top heel of TNA. He is always going to be right there on the mic and going on about it's his belt. That's going to limit what TNA is going to be allowed to write. This does give Christian a chance to promote to young stars and future of the business.

I can understand why they are pushing Sting to the main event. They have 1 year to use him and his WCW popularity to bring in fans. Hopefully after this next PPV, Joe can continue the feud with Jarrett and Sting can give a rub to someone else.

Se7en

I don't understand why anybody watches TNA??????
In my opinion it completely sucks.

Because in our opinion, it doesn't.

If you watched the matches of the X Division and saw some of the amazing matches on their PPVs, maybe you would understand.

Or not. WWE needs people like you who remain loyal no matter what. We choose to watch the alternatives as well as WWE.

Lord help us if we only have the WWE to watch. I enjoy watching TNA as well. Back in the day I watched WCW and ECW as well just like every other Red Blooded Wrestling Fan.

Force, do you realize that Vince damn near killed wrestling when he purchased WCW and ECW? Heck I thought that move alone was going to put PWI out of business as well. TNA is a saving grace and hopefully it will continue strong.

What dont you like about TNA, Force? The six sided ring? the lack of sex? the way it doesn't insult our intelligence?

That's be the Six Sided Ring for me <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I like everything else.

By the way, I recently watched the Samoa Joa vs Fallen Angel match. Gritty! Very good, now I know what all you guys were crowing about.

Quick question or two.
Is the NWA or X-Div belt the top strap?
Is PWI still going? I never saw it at the news stands very long after Vince purchased his competition.

Well Lord, Amadeus and everyone else; we're all different and soon there's gonna be 4 top level shows to choose from. So we're all winners.

Tik'

At least you get the choice to watch it, some people want to but don't get access to it.. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If you don't like it don't watch it... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, or you have to watch matches 3 months old. Like me <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

As you may have just read, I've only just seen the Samoa Joe/Fallen Angel match

Tikus

So, is Joe gonna destroy Jarrett and Steiner (and heck, why not throw Sting in there too, just to prove how badass he is <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />)? I just hope they don't have him team up with Jarrett in any way, that would be beyond awful.

And I'm with ya, Mikie. The only TNA I can see is what's on their site, or youtube. The Global Impact show looks cool, but this weeks won't load for me, and I wanted to see it (gotta get my Joe fix).

Yeah I am waiting for Samoa Joe to turn on Sting in that match.

The X-Division and the NWA strap are two different straps. The X division or Extreme didvision is its own belt kind of like the Intercontinental title belt or more like the Cruiserweight division.

The Cruiser weights have their own belt and the X Division has its own belt.

Thus leading to Samoa Joe vs Sting in the next PPV? Now I would rather see that than anything with Steiner and Jarrett in it.

Se7en

I second that emotion, Brother

Oh yeah but can Sting keep up with Joe at this stage of his life? I want Joe to turn on Sting and prompt the match 7 spoke of. And please take Jarrett and Steiner off TV or keep them tagging in a very fast 2 minute match. I am sick of looking at the two of them. Ugh.

I think Joe would have to carry Sting for most of the match and hopefully Sting wouldn't go over with a couple of kicks to the midsection then into a stinger splash and finally the Scorpion leglock.

Hopefully Joe would go over and WITHOUT the aid of Steiner and Jarrett. If that happens then there is the chance of Buff Luger and/or Rick Steiner coming to Stinger's aid and set up some kind of lame six man tag match at the next PPV.

That would be horrible and Samoa Joe doesn't need to be a part of that mess.

Yeh, so my question is; Which belt NWA or X-Div is considered the top Belt. I guess it's the NWA.

Tikus

It actually isn't the NWA belt that TNA wrestles for now. They split and it is the TNA Heavyweight belt. I think they are on the same level. They try very hard to keep the X Division belt up there in importance and all the X matches are the best ones. Rarely has a heavyweight match touched the greatness of the X matches.

The X belt isn't like say, the US one in WWE. Like a stepping stone belt. It is a very unique belt given to the best of the best in that division. I suppose it could be agreed that it is like the CW belt in WWE bit it isn't.

Anyway, I believe they are fairly equal but, as long as the old school mentality remains the heavyweight belt will probably always be seen as the big prize.

I don't think it completely sucks... but at the same time I don't watch it either... but I have no problems if everyone here does.

I'm a one-eyed WWE loser!

You are not a loser for just liking one show. It's a different strokes for different folks kind of thing. I like TNA because it offers things that the WWE doesn't. That's the same reason why I like ECW.

I am just glad that there are other choices out there to watch besides just the one product.

I'm also glad the workers have a choice in case things don't work out in other companies. I'd hate to think that Raven, Christian, Team 3D, ect would be stuck in such small Feds that we would never see them again. Choices are a good thing to have in life.

Se7en

I don't get the chance to watch TNA that much due to my shift work.
WWE has the bigger product and definitely has a lot more going for it.
But TNA has a lot of good, young, raw , energetic talent. My younger son is a huge TNA fan and thinks Samoa Joe is the bomb actually so do I. What I don't like about TNA yes same old thing the six sided ring, Jeff Jarrett enough ahhhhhhh......and now(remember I'm behind you guys re: programming) Steiner(the man does not look healthy) & Luger (same). Christy Hemme(really nice to see her back, though she looks like she lost a lot of weight) Nash (well what can you say? ok. he's Nash)
And are you serious is it true that Hall's wife left him? The guy's only been married since August '05 last I heard he was very happily married. How can you go from being that happy to divorce court at least give it some time sheeesh rumours......

ECW & NWA before Ted Turner got his hands on it built their product up with an originality. Those wrestlers that started there became stars because of what they did their.
WCW of the Turner days & now TNA today are trying to build there product up through the nostalgia of WWE stars & former WCW stars. Plus TNA doesn't have the marketing formula that WWE has to succeed. Vince McMahon, Crockett & Heyman are the only ones that are are worth giving any credit to in my opinion.

I completely disagree.

If thats the case, the same could be said for Heyman rehiring all of the old ECW stars. Thats all nostalgia too then.

I truly believe that if WWE started today as a new program, no one would watch what Vince MacMahon puts on the show. The writing, booking and angles are nowhere near what they use to be. The ratings over the years prove that.

As for TNA not having the formula, it has moved from a $10 a week PPV to a prime time show on Thurday night. Sure they have a ways to go but look at how long WWE has had to get their act together only to be fumbling the ball right now.

Yes TNA has brought in stars from WCW. Not that long ago WWE bought WCW and look at who they all brought in. No federation is going to bring in new fans in a mass rate at this time in wrestling, so TNA is hoping to get some of the old ones back. Once they turn in, they get to see the next generation of wrestlers like A.J. Styles, Samoa Joe, Chris Daniels, Petey Williams ect.

Let's face it, everyone has to start somewhere and this is where alot are going to get their start. So far WWE has shown me, that they are bringing in characters like Kahli, the Spirit Squad, the Boogeyman and who knows whatelse.

Sure TNA has a ways to go to get their nitch, but in anymore Vince is losing his hold on it.

Se7en

WOW! So much to comment on, where do I start.

Ok. I strongly agree with Seven re: disagreeing with Forcegx7 re: TNA only hiring old buggers for nostalgic purposes.

You've gotta bring in recogniseable talent just to get people to tune in. Thats why Indo shows get 50pax to a house show but WWE, ECW, WCW, TNA were/are packed to the rafters. People like to know who they're watching. It's also why there's a bit of a backlash when we're expected to accept a complete character make over from one federation to another.

In saying that, once you become a regular watcher, you start to know who the new guys are and want to see what they're doing each week. It's not purely for nostalgia, it's smart hiring and booking.

To PrincessIce, It is always great if you try to widen out your viewing. I remember being completely "one eyed" to WWF.
I knew who AWA and NWA were. But was not too interested as I was already a long time cluey WWE fan. I got to see both AWA and NWA on Skysports at the Hotel I worked at, and really thought that they were [censored] in comparison. But after a while I changed my mind (about NWA anyway). I'd get my PWI and check the ratings re who the best wrestlers were for the month and gag at Hogan's low ratings and Flair's continual No.1 spot. I had never seen Ric win via clean pinfall, he ran away, he needed others to help him. How could he be No.1? But, I was a mark through and through then, so now I can appreciate Flair's talents.

About WWE today? We're nearly all going to keep watching it. As much as we bag it, it still presents good matches and interesting storylines. There's just alot of [censored] to wade through as well. It is a Much smoother program than TNA. No doubt about it.

In my book. If I really had to choose only one. I'd pick TNA, purely for the wrestling.

Tikus

Wow so much to comment on so many comments.

I completely agree with Tikuis who agrees with Seven who disagrees with Force on this.

Think about the stars in WWE. Benoit, Booker T., Mysterio, the late and so great Eddie Guerrero, and many are "rehashed WCW" guys.

Austin was a WCW and ECW rehash.

I think that TNA needs names to catch people who are only into "names" and will watch because there is a name they know on there. The younger guys who are tearing it up will be huge no matter where they go. If AJ Styles or Samoa Joe went to WWE tomorrow and were allowed to do exactly what they do now, they would be "superstars" in the eyes of the WWE only crowd. But we know WWE would pull a Goldberg on them and have them wearing wigs and jobbing.

I am majorly impressed with the level of pure talent TNA has. The fact is there are only so many places for wrestlers to work. Eventually they all end up working everywhere. I mean, WWE, TNA, and Ring of Honor are the only truly well known promotions (and ROH has little or no TV at all). These guys have to eat. They have to make a living.

I think a huge statement was made when Christian decided not to stay in WWE and went to TNA. He was saying he was sick of the WWE treatment and wanted to do what he does best before the years go by and he didn't get the chance. He's doing awesome.

And on the flip side, if someone from TNA (Let's say...CM Punk who did just jump not too long ago) is a star in WWE, is he a TNA rehash?

Sure, some of the guys in TNA could stand to tone down their TV time (Jarrett for one). But so could some of the guys in WWE.

I am just saying that the two promotions are very different. Different demos, different budgets, different forward looking statements, different goals. But both are entertaining for many people and we are glad to have another show to watch. It isn't either or. It's both!

And when ECW airs, I will watch that. And when Society X airs on MTV, I will watch that too.

I am a wrestling fan. Not a certain promotion fan. That is the difference between the two distinct groups of fans out there.

Not saying one is superior to the other. Just saying one group likes to watch wrestling and the other feels WWE is the only game in town and won't give anyone else a chance.

A choice that I feel closes the wrestling world to them but that is their choice.

Re: WWE today. I would roll my eyes and LAUGH at their [censored] if they were a brand new promotion starting out and brought me the [censored] they do. I put up with a lot of it out of nostalgia and for the good matches and promos that are interspersed within the owner of the company making out with a woman 1/3 his age, the Great Khali's grunting, the Boogeyman's worms, Umaga's 80's beast gimmick, the Spirit Squad's cheerleading, and a man who is fully mentally capable pretending to be retarded.

Sounds kind of funny when you realize it is WWE, huh? lol

Anyway, I haven't seen it but I read the results. Did anyone else see it? Looks like they definitely did the right thing by Joe, not jobbing him out to anyone.

Am I the only one who thinks that the Spirit Squad is a great gimmick? Not so much the cheerleading but because there are so many of them and there are plenty of chances for interference. Stuff like that is so prevelant in wrestling. Interference runs wild. The original Legion of Doom, the Four Horsemen, any team with a manager, the Nation of Domination, etc.. The spirit squad is no different and the cheerleading is ok I guess because they have an excuse for weapons at the ring, i.e. the trampoline, the megaphone cone. Maybe thats just me, though.

I'm a gimmick man. I believe wrestlers should have catchy names and their finishers should have catchy names as well.

The Big Bossman was a prison guard gimmick so he carried a billy club as part of his uniform and would come in handy as a weapon along with handcuffs. Who was it that carried a huge bug sprayer of perfume? Adrian Adonis? Rick Martel?
That kind of stuff is great.

I have the same type of stuff in the book I am writing about pro wrestling. I made up my own organization and wrestlers and stuff like that is in there.

<img src="/images/graemlins/irish.gif" alt="" /> carries a shelelagh(sp?) Yokozuna and Fuji had a bucket of salt for before match rituals, The Great Kabuki and his son Muta spit a mist as did Tajiri and I guess the different colors of mist were supposed to represent degrees of intensity of the mist.

Great gimmicks make for entertaining watching, in my opinion. Whether it's a large group of wrestlers on a team or a wrestler bringing a weapon that fits with his gimmick.

Remember Macho King and his scepter? The Warrior does, I'm sure. lol.

Don't like gimmick and they suck at cheerleading. I don't mind factions. Many factions were my favorites. This one is NOT. However, at least two will emerge as a great or least very good solo wrestlers in due time.

Cat, I saw the TNA PPV and they did exactly right. Joe worked with Sting, won, shook hands but his job was done and he left and, when he saw Sting getting beaten up, he kept walking. After all, he did what he was asked to do. I loved it because it kept him heel but the fans got to see him actually respect a babyface. And this opens a window of opportunity for Sting to fight Joe.

Joe's name was heavily chanted drowning out any possibly Sting ones yet TNA saw fit to pay Sting six figures and trans while almost losing Joe because they were stingy with him. That man there IS TNA right now. Not Sting, not Jarrett, not Steiner, or any of the other "names".

Nash squashing the X Division is lame and I don't like it even though I know how it will end. It isn't going to help anyone. When Rey beat Nash no one, for a second, believed any of it and it did nothing for Rey.

Re; Gimmicks and Factions, I miss Stables, such as The Four Horseman, The Bobby Heenan Family (Bobby was an awesome heel manager). We still see some of it such as the Canadians in TNA. But not like the old days.

Tikus

I think that they have nothing left to try and push that will work except for Joe. Christian failed, and it's not his fault, but all of the specialness that he had seems to be stripped of him. Sting was decent in the beginning, but he's now just another guy who needs to help put someone over. Steiner has one match in him that will draw, and that's with Joe.

Here's what I'd do, even though it won't make sense I don't think based on what they're probably going to do at the next show.

I'd face off Christian, Jarrett, and Steiner in a 3 way for the strap with the sole purpose of Jarrett and Steiner beating Christian with Jarrett thinking that Steiner will let him pin Christian to win the belt. But before that happens, Steiner pins Jarrett to win it. Christian isn't pinned and it sets up a match down the line.

I'd have Joe face Sting in a match where Sting basically puts him over as the new guy and he wonders if he still has it in him to run with the big dogs and I'd have it be a very competitive match with Joe winning.

This would set up Joe vs. Steiner which I think is really the only money match they have right now. I'd have it headline the next show and put Joe over for the belt.

I'd then have Christian come out and say that he wasn't pinned and never got his chance to win the belt back and have him headline the next show against Joel And then I'd turn Christian heel and have Joe be the babyface.

I just saw TNA last night and don't think Christian failed AT ALL. The crowd was hot for him, his promo in the crowd was solid as it was in the ring and I think he's doing great.

I don't think people want Joe as a face. They like chanting "Joe's gonna kill you" when someone does something. I suppose if he was a tweener face but a full out good guy would kill his momentum, IMHO, of course.

I do like Christian better as a heel but I think the best thing to do is to take Jarrett off TV for a while and for God's sake, toss Steiner back into the indy pool. Ugh.

Oh Joe's going to be a face soon enough. And you know they're going that way based on the ending of that PPV.

I don't blame Christian at all. But he's lost all his specialness being the champ. The charm, the character, the wit, it's all gone. He cuts dry promos. He just looks like a goofy random guy up there. I think he needs someone to utilize on the mic and that's where TNA has no one. It's different when you're going toe to toe on the mic with Jericho, Rock and Cena.

The ending of the PPV was letting Sting get his butt kicked as he walked away. That is what I hope a heel would do. I don't want him as a face. He is a face heel now and that is a good thing (Think Austin).

Faces aren't cool.

Talking about goofy, what happened to the Dudleys? They're incoherent now and make no sense. They used to be scary and tough and now they are like Laurel and Hardy.

Cena sucks on the mic compared to the Rock and Jericho. He should go back to rapping at least he was mildly entertaining then. I like Christian better as a heel too but he still makes it as a face. I think his heel days are over.

Joe is a good face heel like Austin and hopefully he will stay a tweener. I hate when heels turn faces because they lose that killer instinct.

All faces should be tweeners. Well, most of them anyway. Hopefully Triple H will stay that way but I dont see that happening because he too is about to be broiled in a feud with the McMahons as is Yawn Micheals and I see a tag team match in the near future with Micheals and Triple H against the McMahons.

Sigh.

Cena sucks on the mic? Have you seen some of his stuff from before WWE? I have a couple links I will post that show his other side when allowed to be unleashed. Great stuff.

Yawn Michaels? The only time he ever made me yawn was during the 60 plus minute Iron man match and that was because he had to mat wrestle and I prefer him flying around.

But to each his - or her - own.

I agree most babyfaces should stay a bit on the tweener side. Few can be really excellent pure faces anymore. I think maybe Rock and possibly Jericho (when he wasn't getting goofy) were strong babyfaces.

Obviously Hogan was/is as well. I don't like him but when he's a face, he's an all out face and fans seem to eat it up.

no i havent seen any of Cena's stuff before the WWE. His stuff IN the WWE is boring. But that is only MHO.

I was never a huge Micheals fan except for his stint in DX and I still wasn't a huge fan but liked him more. I am liking him a little more now too but still not a huge fan.

It's so funny that Cena gets such a huge backlash. He's the only guy in wrestling (domestic) right now that draws (exception being Mysterio, but they for some reason want to kill that) and for the little time he and Edge get to talk with HHH, I think they do great. Cena can't simply cut rhymes his entire career. He needs work cutting money promos. And thus far, being so young in the game as a main eventer with them pretty much changing his gimmick and telling him to be white meat, he's doing a fine job.

He's a heat magnet, both for boos and cheers. Just craziness.

I don't think Joe is going to go face and start soaking up cheers. I mean he's going to be a face in that he's going to fight the heels. People are already cheering the hell out of him. It's just a matter of time.

The Dudleys are so boring now. I wonder what they could do to re-inspire that gimmick?

I agree the Dudleys are nothing of what they were in ECW. In ECW they were ruthless. It was great. Some of my favorite matches were the TLC matches. They were great. Going to TNA the Dudley have even lost what they had in WWE. I don't get it!

Abe (Al)

I think Joe has better longivity as a tweener and I know we have gone over this before, but fans normally don't use the terms Face, Tweener and Heel. Only the "smart fans" do. The terms are used for back stage on how the writers want the characters to act. The rest of us have picked up using the terms.

The fans can cheer Joe all they want but that doesn't make him a face. They want Joe to be bad so they cheer what he does. If he acted like a true good guy, it would take away from the character and he would lose the cheering. People love the Bad A$$es.

Now I think the only thing the Dudleys have to do to get their edge back is cut the little comedy in the promos and start intrupting tag team matchs. Let them screw over the Canadians and AMW. Better yet, let them plant the seed in Team Canada's mind that they will never get a shot at the belts while always having to AMW's backside all the time.
Once AMW vs Team Canada gets started, Team 3D can run rough shot over them both.
Then on to The James Gang and Konnan's group.

Se7en

James Gang. Ergh. Another team that simply has no edge left. They were once good but now Billy Gunn looks completely ridiculous (He is old now,not a young buck) and Brian/Road Dogg looks like a car mechanic, not a wrestler.

Their promos are as bad as Dudleys' are and the tws teams together talking?

Nails on a chalkboard.

About Scott Steiner. Like nearly everyone else, I'm NOT a big Steiner fan. But, I do think he plays a very good Bully type bad Guy. So long as he's still in shape and has that ring presence (which he has), they may as well keep using him. Just don't let him wrestle too often.

I don't know what happened to the Steiners. When Rick and Scott were the "Steiners", they were unbelievable in the ring. Them versus Road Warriors or Doom and my fav, vs Owen & Bret Hart (a once off I believe). Just great matches.
Then they both decided to bulk up to the point of being unable to really move in the ring, esp Scott. And both went the Bad [censored] route. I dunno, I think they were better as the ex college Steiner Brothers.

Tikus

We both agree here. But if the man is constantly being cheered against a guy who is booked as the good guy, you can't continuously book Joe as a heel. While the regular fans don't use these terms, they understand the difference between a good guy and a bad guy. The Austin reference is a good one, though I think McMahon could tell early on where he wanted to go there. Just as I think TNA knows where they are going with Joe.

And we mentioned Christian and Patty mentioned that he's getting cheered. Let's remember who cheer him. The same 200 fans that go to the weekly TNA and PPV shows. The PPV buying crowd enjoys him I'm sure just as those taping fans. But the true story in if he works as a champ in my opinion is if he is going to make more people buy the PPV, or if he makes more people watch the TV show. I understand that probably the only person moving anything is Joe, but that's what the champ is for correct?

Not always. Some people are watched more when chasing the belt Triple H is one.

But you'll agree that the champ has the responsibility of drawing the houses? Isn't that why Eddie had problems with being champ? So much responsibility?

If you're in the main event every PPV, you need to be a draw, or you're worthless there. That's just my opinion.

I definitely agree the champ has to essentially carry the brand. It isn't quite as formulatic as it used to be but still, when houses tank and such, much of the blame is on the champ.

I also agree you have to draw if you are main eventing. That is not to say Joe wouldn't draw main eventing going after the belt rather than holding it though. I think making people want it, wait for it, and hope for it will make him getting the belt that much sweeter. But then he has to be able to hold the heat as champ once the fight to get it is gone. He probably can, judging from what I have seen. I just don't want them to rush anything. Especially if hat means an automatic Jarrett feud that ends with a guitar shot win. Ugh.

He is sort of a modern day Goldberg in some ways and it was fun watching him go after the belt and plow through people but once he had it, there wasn't much left to hope for. Of course, Joe has tons more talent than Goldberg did...

They need to give Joe a believable memisis. And slowly build it. ECW were king at this, sometimes keeping opponents apart for months. Not only ECW, I remember WWE very slowly building up the Ultimate Warrior v Hulk Hogan match for ages, till the fans were rabid. Joe needs an opposite.

Tikus

Give Joe Ooooomahgaaaaa.. Please.

Amadeus, Gotta ask you, are you the sort of person who who likes to Feed minows to Mexican Waking fish? Or live mice to Pythons?

Isn't that why he's on our team, Tik?

Not sure how many of you have followed Joe a whole lot, I haven't been following him too long, just his stuff in ROH for about 2 years, but he can most definitely carry himself along with the belt. Although once he gets to that stage, it gets to the suspense of who's going to beat him for the belt. Watching him lose the belt on dvd 2 months after it happened, knowing the ending, I still got goosebumps & was exhausted.

I'm not exactly sure what it is about that man, but he is amazing. & extremely fun to watch.

Yep! The crazier the better

Tikus

Why, yes. Yes I am. I am also crazier than a tazmanian devil and loonier than a toon. Just don't tell anyone ok? Trying hard to keep a secret here.

My first job was biting the heads off of live chickens at the local carnivals if that gives you any idea of how looney I am <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue2.gif" alt="" />