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Yes, Amadeus, ECW is and always will be hardcore. That was who they were, and what they were about, and 9 out of 10 fans came to see the hardcore stuff.

But when you get right down to it, with that proliferation of bad [censored], over the top and down right lethal wrestling action that is hardcore, it was refreshing, at least to me, to see an occasional match that was nothing more then the basics personified. What Eddie and Dean did was offer an exciting, technical ode to old school wrestling, and whether you believe it or not, that is the basis of all wrestling promotions, even ECW. Anyone can fight. A select few can wrestle, and fewer still do it well.

And that's all I got to say about that.

But I do, as always, respect your opinion.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I agree most think of ECW as hardcore and crazy and it was a lot of the time. But they fail to realize that people like Lance Storm were there too. He wasn't hardcore per se but boy could he wrestle! The Impact Players ruled.

I think ECW should be remembered for their really good storylines. Innovative, fresh, oft times controversial, anti-big federation stuff that worked. WWE and WCW wouldn't have stolen so many storylines from ECW (and gimmick matches) if they didn't know they were innovative.

I thought Raven did his most compelling work in ECW, truly making people believe he was everything he said and falling apart inside. I remember an awesome scene where he just cracked and Paul E was trying to talk sense into him in a stairwell. The lighting, the camera angle, the conversation - it was 100% believable. I felt as though I was watching reality unfold before more eyes.

Many times people who watched ECW really didn't know what was a shoot and what was a work, something Heyman is so very good at blurring the lines of.

ECW is hardcore. They did the barbed ware matches and the crazy flips, dive, moves, and all that. But, it was the storylines that sucked me in. I can think of very few that were roll my eyes silly. It was an adult show with adult storylines that didn't have to pander to kids. WWE has tried, and failed, to do lesbian storylines but ECW succeeded in not just doing them but actually making us believe it all. (Well, you know, it was totally believable how it came about, not that we believed the storyline was a shoot.). Pregnancy angles? Lame in other feds, worked in ECW. Backstage vignettes where the guys were caught on camera? ECW didn't insult our intelligence by making us put aside the fact that the guys or girls were talking right in front of a cameraman and don't know the whole world can see and hear them. They had ways of doing it so you really felt you were watching something that was supposed to be private and off camera. Just...compelling stuff.

I loved it and I know it won't be the same now...

I agree it won't be the same as it was and Patty, you are absolutely right about the vignettes and such, however, there were some lame ones as well. Some that were dark and gritty and hard to see and even some with Raven droning on for about ten minutes but for the most part they were all believable as you say.

TGO i whole heartedly agree with you as well. Few do wrestle well and anyone can fight.
As much as I like to see the hardcore action, I also enjoy watching the technical wrestling. I enjoyed watching Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Ricky Steamboat, Mil Mascaras, Rey Mysterio, RVD, Ric Flair, Magnum T.A., Al Perez, Kurt Angle and even Raven had some good technical moves. Obviously, the list is endless.

Also, obvious, is that not everyone I mentioned was in ECW but I was just pointing out some of the wrestlers I have enjoyed watching wrestle.

I'm just saying that I as well as many other fans tuned into ECW to see some bloodbaths just as people watch NASCAR for the wrecks. It's the nature of the beast.

ECW will never be the same as it was, I just hope it's a reasonable facsimile.

Amadeus,

I would be lying if I told you that I didn't enjoy the hardcore stuff from ECW too. But, putting Patty's post in perspective for myself, and your posts too, I guess the thing about ECW was they had a little of everything for everyone. Innovative ideas, hardcore meyhem, BELIEVABLE characters, awsome writing, the list could go on forever. It's the three ring circus mentality, they had something for everyone. I, however, loved it all. No, I don't think ECW will be the same, for the same reason they were so darn successful. Like Paul E said, they were anti-establishment (Big time promotions WWE and WCW) and they were up in your face. So, now that ECW is being brought to us via that establishment that was anti in the past, it will surely lose that which made it so successful in the first place. But, with all that being said, ECW still has a place in the fans hearts, and maybe, just maybe ECW with a little different flavor can still be palatable.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

It also had a vigilante feel. They were in a bingo hall. They didn't have expensive pyro or great camera techniques. They had rabid regular fans there every single show (who WWE actually got to come back last year for the PPV). They had Sandman smoking and drinking in the crowd pouring beer into fans mouths. (Now he has to see ID. REALLY. But that was then. It was assumed the people were adults and I think the drinking age hen was 18.) Even the fuzzy camera stuff was intentional.

It was like they thumbed their noses at the rich, slick promotions and we were part part of some outlaw promotion that didn't need the glitz and glitter. I know I got caught up in it especially live. I mean they body surfed! They trusted the fans to literally carry them all through the crowd and they fans DID. Very cool.

If that part is removed, then it isn't ECW. It's WWECW.

And about Raven droning on. I loved it. "Why'd you let the drunk hurt, me Tommy???" "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." (Stolen but done well in the dark on a playground with the camera going in and out and making me seasick.) "So it is written and so it shall come to pass..."

Me? An ECW Raven mark? Obviously. lol.

Raven is VERY smart. Heard he was a member of Menza. That was part of his charm for me, a genius that is cuckoo.

Yes, oh the glory day's of ECW. Their greatest attribute was they were grassroots as grassroots get's.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

Raven = smart AND hot, Great One. Right, Patty? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But now ECW won't have that grittiness in terms of production. As long as they keep pushing the envelope in terms of characters and promos, as long as they set themselves apart from the WWE other than just saying "Hey, we're different", it could/should work.

Is there anymore word on whether it will just be house shows, or are they actually touring with Smackdown (taking place of Velocity)? It would be a lot easier to pull off the vigilante thing if they were independent.

Yes I enjoyed the vignettes and plethora of wrestling action but it had its moments that I didn't enjoy too much like Raven sitting on the stairs and wallowing for ten minutes but thats me. I love Raven. I love the Sandman. I love Tommy Dreamer I even loved whats his name with the jewel in his forehead...Damn what was his name. He was the leader of the truth commission or something like that and always stirred up trouble between Taz and Corino.

Obviously different fans like different aspects of wrestling. As much as I loved seeing technical wrestling, I loved seeing the hardcore matches that much more. Maybe because growing up a wrestling fan I was used to people being disqualified when they threw someone out over the top rope or getting a small cut on the forehead and having the match called saying the wrestler couldn't go on so the Hardcore matches were new to me. I used to have to get excited when there was a steel cage match, now hardcore is almost a normal part of wrestling and I enjoy it a tad bit more.

However that was what was good about ECW. They werent just hardcore. They mixed it up because as much as I like watching hardcore wrestling that too would get old if thats all you watched.

I didn't care for the grainy long a$$ promos. I like watching promos like Steve Austin and The Rock. I like them comical and filled with catch phrases but thats just me.
I did enjoy some of the stuff Raven did like what Patty mentioned but then again I am a mark for the Family Guy too.

Giggety giggety giggety gig

ECW. It seems it means different things to different people. But thats life isn't it?

For me, I love wrestling and the different sorts of matches different pairings will give you. Of course we've all got our favourites.

What I didn't like were the pointless matches with CheeseGraters and the like.
Thumb tacks, tables, chairs and bisc trays, yeah, fun. But the cheese Grater stuff was just sick. (A alot of people liked it, I couldn't hardly watch it). I just sit there and think, what kind of a sicko thinks up this stuff? And what kind of sicko actually wants it to happen to them? You can keep the Blood and Guts Gladiator stuff, and give me wrestling anyday.

Raven. I NEVER got it and still don't. He bored me as Johnny Pollo and Bored me even more as Raven. His wrestling didn't inspire me, his character reminded me of a few people I actually knew (so maybe it was a bit too real for me, depressing people who were no joy to be around) and his interview/speeches, please wake me up when he's finished!

Now that should upset a few Raven loving people.

The more I see TNA, the more I think it has the Wrestling me and others like me wanna watch. I wish ECW all the best and without doubt, if Paul Heyman has almost total control it Will be very good.

Tikus