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Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245042 04/30/06 12:42 AM
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The search for truth, or confirmation, has nothing to do with your bashing.
You disrespect and degrade the beliefs of those who do not believe what you do because you feel it uplifts your own philosophies.
There is no possible way that remarks such as stating that we Christians are putting faith in a "flawed book" and the many other flat out attacks, could be considered healthy debate.
You imply knowledge about Christianity and the Bible but the truth is, you know nothing. What are the Christian beliefs (not general but in detailed)??? Claiming that you do know, again, is an attempt to uplift your philosophies.
I know enough about other religions, to know when they come under the Bible definition of a "cult" (not my definition!). In fact I have also read enough from books such as the one entitled "Kingdom of the Cults", to also know this. I am only bringing up this aspect because you have insisted on hearing it.
Any so called religion that does not believe and confess that "Jesus is Christ, the son of God" is of the "anti-Christ spirit".>>>>

I John 4:1-3 "BELOVED (Christians), believe not every spirit, but try the spirits (test them) whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Hereby know ye the Sprit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (Emanuel "God with us", the creator made flesh)is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti-christ, whereof ye have heard that it should come: and even now already is in the world."

I Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Sprit, see of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, recieved up to glory."

John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

Who do you believe these scriptures are saying Jesus is?
For what reasons are you telling me I should not believe this <<(rhetoricle: nothing changes my beliefs)?
You imply you have tremendous knowledge, even stating in your post under the other thread, that you are "doing us a favor", so I will also ask; Who do you think you are?
You are throwing around empty words and then pretending you are not being satisfactorily responded to. I believe there are no answers that will ever satify you until you are sincerely open to the truth.
This is the best I can do for you and I don't feel responding to you futher, in these regards, will help, so I'm going to have to leave it here.
You'll lambast and ridicule this post again, I already know that but I really don't understand what you want from us, so I will just be praying about it.
God Bless and Love you, and satisfy your search for him!

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245043 04/30/06 12:48 AM
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I can't post long tonite. My family crisis has come to a major head unfortunately. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Please, those of you that pray, pray for Michael and his doctors.

Quote:
When somebody can give me a concrete answer on Why you believe it, rather than what you believe, then I'll be satisfied.


You want a "concrete" answer as to why we believe, but the majority of our belief system is based on FAITH. i can't make that concrete for you.

It's like I said in a post long ago - you have no proof that when you get in your car and drive to work everyday that you will not be in a carwreck and die. Yet you still do it. That is faith based on the fact that your normally are safe.

The sun does not have to rise every day, but we have faith that it will.

A person that goes skydiving has no way of knowing that the parachute will 100% open, yet they do it anywya with the faith that it will.

Faith surrounds us on a daily basis - sometimes based on lots of evidence, and sometimes based on very little. But there is nothing about Faith the is "concrete" unless you are talking about the strength of it some people my possess.


Michelle Taylor
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Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245044 04/30/06 06:04 AM
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Michelle,

Michael and your family are in my prayers tonight.

Alexandra, you can read why I belive what I believe in my testimony which is posted on the Bible Bascis site under the Archives. It's late now and my husband is tired so we are gong to go to sleep. But we can talk more about "why" tomorrow and I will share some details about my life that I have never shared here before...


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
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Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245045 04/30/06 07:13 AM
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Michelle - you know me - I will do what I do, and I will do what I can.

Jenna, Suffice here, to say I have read your post, and I thank you both there and here.....I have responded at length, there.... if you haven't seen it already, make yourself comfortable, and have a cuppa;.. it's a long post - ! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jim... I'm just going to respond on some points you make in your post...

Quote:
You disrespect and degrade the beliefs of those who do not believe what you do because you feel it uplifts your own philosophies.


I have never disrespected and denigraded your beliefs or those of anyone else here..And as Jenna may well read this post, I hope she would bear me out on that....If I had ever done that, I would hope my posts would have been reported, and that some punitive action would be taken.

I have tremendous respect and admiration both for the central core message of what the Bible teaches, and for those who practise their Christian faith. As for it uplifting my own philosophies, yes, it can do that - but not in the way you think... There are many similarities in what Christ taught his followers, and in what the Buddha taught....

Quote:
You imply knowledge about Christianity and the Bible but the truth is, you know nothing. What are the Christian beliefs (not general but in detailed)??? Claiming that you do know, again, is an attempt to uplift your philosophies.


I have already explained my background elsewhere, and do not need to further elaborate here.... But having had a full Christian life, upbringing and education has obviously had a massive influence on me, in that I know more than you are prepared to believe I do.
My point is that you cannot supply a balanced discussion, because you in turn, know less about Buddhism...

Quote:
I know enough about other religions, to know when they come under the Bible definition of a "cult" (not my definition!). In fact I have also read enough from books such as the one entitled "Kingdom of the Cults", to also know this. I am only bringing up this aspect because you have insisted on hearing it.


You will also know then that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has close, continuous and productive dialogue with many different religious authorities, from Judaism, Islam and Christianity, and among others, The World Community for Christian meditation.... He spoke at length, by invitation, I might add, during the John Main seminar held in London, 1994 on the close connection between the Gospels and the teachings of the Buddha, basing his discourse on The sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, the parable of the Mustard Seed and the Kingdom of God, the Transfiguration and the Resurrection. This seminar has since been documented in a book titled 'The Good Heart', and provides a wonderful bridge between what both you and I practise...
You will then further know that the eminent and widely respected Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Monk, has also written a book in close liaison with Church representatives, called 'Living Buddha Living Christ, passionately hailing both men as wonderful examples of the Love they both taught, and observing how their lives walk hand in hand.
Buddhism - preceding Christianity by 500 years - cannot in all sincerity be called a 'cult'.

Practises like Scientology, 'Heaven's gate', the Moonies, and the Davidian Sect, founded by David Koresh, are....

Quote:
You'll lambast and ridicule this post again, I already know that.....


Never. I never have, never will.
I would never lambast,nor ridicule.
If you feel I have done this anywhere, as I have tried to say already, I feel your perception is flawed. And if I may further venture, I feel it is you who is on a back foot, not I.


Jim....
there is much more I could say, but I'm going to cease corresponding with you because this is getting us nowhere. I am sorry you feel it both inappropriate and unnecessary to at least even do a little research into Buddhist texts, to at least meet me part of the way.... if you wish to continue viewing what I practise as cultish, and what I say as being anti-Christian, I nor anyone else, can make you see otherwise.
I wish you well.
Metta and Namaste, Jim, and thank you.

Last edited by Alexandra; 04/30/06 08:20 AM.
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245046 04/30/06 04:45 PM
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Alexandra and forum members:
I just had to respond one more time. Below are quotes from Alexandra. I'm not using the quote box to save space.

"I have never disrespected or denigraded your beliefs or those of anyone else here." (<<now see quotes that follow)

"..faith in a flawed document is neither sound nor reliable"

""..the ceation story itself is pure fantasy."

"..It may be what you believe but proof and evidence need more than just an ancient scriptural say-so."

"..the Old Testament is an eclectic mix of a hefty dose of fantasy and a small tickle of significan history...many of the events took place in the Bible...just not as the Bible describes them."

"..if you attempt to take the Bible as concrete fact...aespotic, unbalanced and frankly outrageous."

"..constant reference to Jesus Christ is admirable...such matters should be taken with a pinch of salt..not a single shred of evidence to support their veracity."

"..the plagues that released the Isrealites also occured...but not as described...and certainly not for that reason."

"I just cannot buy the God bit."

"Any creator who can "answer prayers" and heal little Tommy of a terrible illness but can permit a disaster...to kill countless thousands is what I cannot swallow."

"Oh shut my mouth" <<sarcasim

"count youself lucky I decided to come back and edit."

Alexandra, uses extreme "disrespect and denigrades" things that are Christian and Biblical and then turns right around and says she is not doing this! She also used sarcasim and sprinkles her posts with intelligent sounding words, as if this somehow makes her posts more believable and acceptable. Her purpose is as I have stated before, to lambast, debunk and attack Christianity and the Bible and then to turn around and pretend these things were done for "interesting discussion".
What is most amazing, is that she does these things, then turns around and pretends to have respect for those who have solid faith in the things she attacks as described!!
The obvious purpose is to disrupt and confuse this forum, then claim it is for healthy debate and discussion.

Her first quote above and the ones that follow, are extreme contradictions from a person who claims wanting to help others find the real truth.
I ask all forum members to pray sincerely for her. Confusion this extreme points to serious problems.
I do not have unforgiveness or a grudge, whatsoever, in fact this has given me genuine concern. God loves her as much as any of the rest of us and if her search is real and not a cover for hatred, God will reveal himself.
Alexandra,
Many people have had experiences that were attached to a Christian type religion (don't remember what denomination you said you were) but these same people, later in life, came to know Jesus Christ in a personal way and realized this is what was missing from their earlier experience. There is such a thing as religious Christians, as opposed to those who have truely been born again and made new creatures in Christ.
My prayer for you, is that you will give The Lord Jesus a genuine, sincere chance to reveal himself to you, through salvation and he will also show you the truth of his word.
God Bless You, I sincerely wish God's best for you. He has given me compassion for you and I'm praying for you.

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245047 04/30/06 05:04 PM
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I'm afraid you still don't get the point of my discussion.
The above quotations are occasionally out of context, but even so, not one of them is insulting or condescending, not one of them attacks anyone personally, and not one of them denigrades nor lambasts your personal belief in God.

My point is that the Bible, as a hard, factual, concrete completely historical document simply doesn't cut the mustard.

That's all.

I really am going to call it a day here... If I can't engage in a discussion with you here, it's unlikely we'll be able to do it anywhere else. But you're always welcome to join the Buddhist forum discussion on a Higher Power....


And thank you for your prayers...
If I die first, I'll save you a seat. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245048 05/03/06 03:18 AM
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Ya know, this thread is about the article written by Jim, not about a theological discussion on the validity of the Word of God... refer to the forum rules for Bible Basics.

So if you have any comments or questions about the article, you can post those here... If you ahev other questions that you would like to post to the forum, please start a new thread.

Thanks! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
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Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245049 05/03/06 03:39 AM
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Quote:
In scripture we see that God will not resume works of creation, until after the 1,000 year reign of Christ (signals the end of the sabbath), after which, he will yet again re-create the heaven and the earth (Rev 21:1).


OK, just to make sure I've got my timeline straight here...

The above will occur after the rapture, tribulation, reign of anti-Christ (that was probably redundant), and Armageddon - which is the final battle where Satan and all will be thrown into the lake of fire, right?

So for Jesus' 1000 yr reign on earth, who will be here? Those that survive the tribulation period? Or will those that have already passed away (and who are in Heaven) be brought back to Earth?

I thought once we went to Heaven that was it, that's where we stayed.


Michelle Taylor
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Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245050 05/03/06 04:07 AM
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I've read texts regarding this and heard various speakers on the topics and the only commonality I get from the readings/speakers is that Revelations tells us the world will end--someday.

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245051 05/03/06 01:51 PM
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My opinions stated here are just that, my opinion.

It being a very long time since i studied the bible I can not offer quotations. What I think is written is no man knows the hour of His return. So when confronted with calculations of when the end time is near I just smile and change the subject.
Faith, to me, is believing in the unprovable. "I believe this ... " is enough. The bible says that faith is a gift from the Holy Spirit not something won in debate. As a non believer I have spent many hours in coffee house discussions with egotistical athiests to divert them from playing logic games with ones with simple faith who were drawn into trying to prove the unprovable.
My experiance with those who have been changed through the annointing of the Holy Spirit is that the scriptures become alive and no longer just ancient stories.
I wish i could remember where the the comparion of childish and the more mature in faith is compared to milk and meat is from. Is there a scripture or just something i heard in a sermon?
My most critical opinion is debating or spending much time in thought on things as such what happened before the historical records is milk not meat. How many angels can fit on a head of a pin?

I am not a believer in your faith. Is it against the rules of the forum for me to post this?

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