BellaOnline Forums Sports Wrestling You have got to be kidding me

So God finally showed up to help his partner out?
And all He did was set off a couple of explosions?
Vince raced off in his limo, does he think God can't catch him in the car?

Now that Vince has "proof" that God was there and he was afraid, does this mean he will call off the match and humbly apologize to Shawn and God?

God proved tonite on Raw that he isn't taking any guff so Vince had better watch out.

Yeesh <img src="/images/graemlins/wall.gif" alt="" />

Amadeus1220,

I concur.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I went a little crazy on my Fringe boards so I will keep this short. All I hope is that, in the end, Shawn will reveal he was behind the ridiculous stuff that happened (Mind games, beating the master at his own game stuff).

If this doesn't happen, I will be convinced Vince lost his mind and that Shawn, who is one of my favorites, isn't much of a man to allow that stuff -- or he isn't very religious after all.

Yes, it is just a storyline but now it's absurd. That promo Vince cut was just asinine. It was long, boring, and really said what he thinks. He DOES think he is a cult leader and he almost is in a sense. People DO have to beg him for things. It is so weird to see it all on TV when it happens backstage but not quite so grandiose.

I despised the whole thing. I am not offended yet. Not yet. I am hoping that Shawn will have outwitted Vince.

And yeah, so God can't go faster than a speeding limo? Where is Vince running to? If God was out to get him, he'd get him one way or the other. Silliness.

It was nice to see Charlie Haas back though. He looked great in the ring and the two could have a good series of matches if they go with that.

I will leave the rest of my musings for another time. I think I exhausted myself on my own boards picking the show apart tonight.

You know as well as I do that WWE is most likely going to drop the ball with Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin. I could be wrong, but the questionable choices made as of late lead me to believe they may not capitalize on it.

As far as the rest of the show....I found myself flipping between Spike TV and USA, watching more of Spike as they had UFC action on. I felt like such a traitor....

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

McMahonism stuff was pretty boring. Having near enough the same main event for the third week in a row sucked as well. Is anyone going to want to pay to see those 3 at it again by the time backlash is on?

True. I think the curiosity will now be who turns on who and who teams with who and how will the winner win.

Though they all hate each other so we know they will all turn on each other unless some secret alliance has been made and I doubt that.

This has been an ongoing theme for quite some time. Unfortunatly there is only so many wrestlers in the promotion, so frequent feuds with the same old same old is inevitable.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

Yes, but not usually the same three for three weeks in a row but it is trying to tell a story...

I stand corrected. NOT! LOL

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I would have to agree with Coda...excuse me...Lord Coda...about the McMahonism stuff. Those superimposed pics of Vinnie in those famous paintings were even done poorly. He rambled on about that [censored] for almost a half hour too and the fans even started the "Boring" chants as well. And as far as the three main events with the same people, they had to do that so each one could get a victory but I think when its all said and done, Trips will leave with the title at Backlash.

Patty I agree totally. GOD! Why would he compete in a tag match anyway? Wouldn't he want to be the whole show. For me , I don't see much difference in what they did with Rey Mysterio. He was calling out to Eddie to help him in the ring. I didn't like that very much either. Eddie was one of my favorites. I think it is great that we remember him but wrestlers making points by doing Eddie's moves. Doing them for a tribute, ok. But doing them in a bad way. What Randy Orton said to Rey about Eddie being down there. That was too far. I believe we haven't seen the end of it.

Al

I think Triple H will leave Backlash as champ too. I think RVD will challange Triple H for the title with his MITB contract at "One Night Stand". Just how he will be at the PPV in any capacity, I don't know as it is just alumnus from ECW that are supposed to do the show. We'll see.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

Nopppppppe. Here's why.

Triple H will be booed out of the building at an ECW show and he doesn't like that. Those boos would be X-Pac boos not heel boos. If anyone will have to do it, it will be Cena although Edge possibly could handle it with his cocky attitude.

Now the problem would be solved if RVD lost at Backlash to Benjamin but I don't see that happening. We already saw one guy gave up a title shot (Rey) even though he ended back in there and it would be crazy to put both the IC strap and the MITB on Benjamin. He should feud with Haas.

RVD should swerve and feud with Rey (ECW) or Benoit (ECW) should get the belt or someone similar.

If not, I foresee someone other than Trips getting booed because NO ONE will turn on RVD at an ECW show and those fans are rabid. But the question is..........will RVD win? I can't see WWE giving the strap to him even as a transitional champ.

So I leave you all to ponder.

WITH THIS I AM A SHARK! NANNER NANNER NANNER.

Good point Patty, I forgot about Triple H's vanity. Still I would go through a couple (or thousand) boos to win the title.

Maybe thats why Trips is a big timer and I am just a ham and egger.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I think they should have Edge get the belt and defend at the ECW PPV - I don't think Vince would let a supposed face like Cena get booed even worse than he was at Wrestlemania, unless they turn him...

Besides, I'm starting to like Edge, just wish they'd get rid of Lita.

I still can't see RVD winning the title. I think they should go easy on the sentimentality for a little. We already got Rey as champ for Eddie, we don't need RVD as champ simply because it's an ECW show. I like RVD, don't get me wrong, but that would be the only reason he would win.

As for the God stuff...just dumb. The whole HBK in the ropes thing was borderline, and I could see how offensive it could be...but the ringpost pyro was some of the weakest pyro I've seen. Hardly a bang! And he was meant to be acting petrified of a little cracker in the corner...Silly.

Cat,

When RVD came back from his long hiatus he was promised push I mean HUGE push. Now, winning the MITB match could be construed as push, I think they have something more in store for him. With that being said, I don't think WWE would waste the MITB gimmick so soon, that is something they can build on, but it has already been as good as promised. I think it is possible RVD COULD win it. But I think Edge either goes when he wins at Backlash, WWE might turn Cena. If Cena retains I think we'll see Cena against RVD with a rougher "edge" sorta speaking, to him.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I'd like Cena to turn (I loved him as a heel) but at the same time, I don't. What I mean is, I like Cena, and I have no doubt that they would inadvertantly make it the most idiotic, poorly-written, most reactionary heel turn of all time.

Anyway, I didn't hear about the big push, so maybe RVD will win. As long as they actually make it mean something, and he steps up to being the champ, instead of it just being an ECW feelgood thing.

Great Analysis! I agree, mostly.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I would have to agree with Patty also about Trips being booed out of the building and I also cannot see RVD being the World Champ but.....stranger things have happened.If he does win a strap, it will be the IC belt at Backlash. Because I see less of Shelton Benjamin as a world champ than I do RVD.

RVD will win the IC title and then capture the World Championship at ECW ONS. Then he will have to forfeit the IC belt and that will go to either Haas or Benjamin and then RVD will lose the World title at Summer Slam to Batista.

Amadeus,

I thought that is what I said? lol

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

As for Cena. I say leave him as he is. He's already getting booed as a face (like Honky Man and Rocky Mavia in their early character pushes). But rather than change him heel as everyone would expect (as were Honky and the Rock), leave him irritatingly Face. Now that would make him the ultimate heel with a twist. Keep him fighting guys like HHH, Edge and other obvious Heels. The fans will be going off.

Tikus

Well it's different anyway

I dunno. I just still cannot see RVD winning the big strap. I see the IC belt but not the big one which is why I think he will take on Rey or another ECW guy who has it.

It would be bad for him to lose to a WWE guy on an ECW show so this one is a puzzler!

And I agree that Cena will not be turning. He has been stating he WILL NOT turn on myspace for weeks and I think this is rather smart. Everyone expects it and it would fall flat. Letting him stay a face who endures controversy could actually work in his favor.

Whether you want to be a heel, or whether you want to be a face whichever label you apply to yourself, it doesn't matter. The fans will put you where they want to. Booing Cena seems to be the poular thing to do, but man he is getting a bit X-Pac complexed. Call him a face if that's what you really want to do. There are a gazillion and a half fans who disagree. If he insist on labeling himself one way while the fans push for the other, he is just going to be booed so much that X-Pac will look like the Ultimate Face.

Sheesh!

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I respectfully disagree with your heel/face argument.

There are very specific things heels do and very specific things faces do no matter what the fans say or chant.

Heels insult the fans. That is the biggest distinguisher of heels. They don't like you, they don't like your town/country, and they don't care what you think (Think: JBL). They are superior in their eyes. Heels cheat or will do anything for a win. Heels will dis their own country for heat. (God too in one case.) Heels are cowardly, begging off of fights after starting them (Think a heel Flair on his knees begging his face opponent to stop beating on him.) Heels run away when their foes come after them (Edge is a good example of talking smack then running away when confronted.)

Faces respect the fans. They use certain phrases and other things to get a pop (Think: Foley). Faces are loyal to other faces and talk about respect a lot. They also usually don't go against their boss unless their boss is a heel boss. For instance, faces would go after Bischoff because he was a heel boss and the fans popped. Heels were on his side. Faces are patriotic. Faces usually stand tall when their foes confront them. They also lose with dignity. Often faces get more beat up than heels to gain sympathy (Think: RVD vs Spirit Squad and all the beatings Cena has taken).

There are many other distinctions that apply but it's after 6:30 a.m. and I am going to bed.

But as for heels and faces, even if the fans cheer the daylights out of someone and he has many heel characteristics, he's a heel. If a face is booed to high heaven, and he doesn't dis the fans, he respects their opinions, and doesn't back down, he's a face.

Although there are shades of gray more now than ever, there is still a tradition of behaviors that make a face what he is and a heel what he is and only a few (Austin is a prime example) can stay a tweener and not fall to one side or the other.

In WCW, as a joke, they had two dressing rooms with one labeled heels and one labeled faces. No one had to question which room he should go into. They did that because fans really believed heels dressed together and faces did together when obviously that isn't the case.

In TNA, they go so far as to have a heel "chute" and a face "chute" and at one point (and maybe still now) had completely different exits for heels than faces. The heels would leave one way and the faces would go up the ramp. I think they stopped that but I can't remember after no sleep for 3 days.

Did I have a point? Oh yeah. Fan reaction doesn't mean anything when it comes to faces and heels. Cena is a face and has every face characteristic there is and then some. He is booed like a heel. But he is standing his ground. If he turns, he will insult the fans, he will turn on a well known face (RVD or HBK would be good ones to turn on since they are clear cut faces and that would immediately establish that Cena decided to turn). He would side with Vince. He would cheat or walk off on his face tag partner or side with his heel opponent. He has done none of that and I don't think he will.

Eventually the fans will boo themselves into respecting him or they will bore of the whole thing and find something else to do.

Angle found himself in the opposite place. He was a heel, with every heel thing imaginable (including sympathizing with terrorists) and somehow the fans started to cheer for him. They turned him because they saw it coming. But if he turned heel tomorrow, they would still cheer him. It is just all in the certain characteristics they display that will tell you who is a what.

Not that we have to react the way we are supposed to but it would be nice if fans kind of "got it" and went with the storylines rather than whatever is going through their minds. But ehhh...it'll never happen.

Whew, I am done now.

Thank you and good night.

Patty,

Well, I respectfully disagree WITH you! lol.

15 years ago I would have been right behind you saying the same thing, but not today. And a lot of that HAS to do with the shades of gray and tweener phenomanon (spell)this is so prevalent. (Again, spell? lol, I just Woke UP! forgive me)

I can give you one verygood example now, I'll tryto think of more later.

Stone Cold. When the whole "Attitude Era" hit and Austin started his rise to...dang I hate using my thingy, GREATNESS, he had a 'tude and started doing things a babyface would notnormally do. He put on an aura of "screw you" to the boss, and the world in general and did things HIS way. He was "The toughest sob in the WWE" (Hey, I made a rhymie)and ALWAYS put forth the ideaology that he didn't care what anyone thought of him, fans included, and they loved him for it. Shades of Gray" Definatley. Tweener? Arguably. Stone Cold brought a careless attitude not necessarily facish never before seen. That was the start of the current state of affairs of the no real true heels (save a very select few).

Don't get me started on DX either. Now Ihave other posts to write, so I will leave it at that. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I agree there are shades of gray as far as faces and heels as far as the fans are concerned.
I've noticed that when a heel is being cheered, and he doesn't want their cheers, he may do something more drastic to a face opponent just to let them know that they are heels and are staying that way.

However, the fans are a fickle lot and will continue to cheer or boo the way they want to and will go along with whatever is fashionable at the time.

All of my (wrestling friends) were all ga-ga over Hogan and that is a reason why I have always cheered Piper. Piper was always one to say something and then attempt to back it up in the ring. I dont remember him saying something and running away i.e. Edge but I do remember him getting the best of an opponent when they weren't looking. (think of Snuka, Morton Downey Jr. et al.)

Right, Amadeus. The point I am trying to make, and unable to articulate is that the landscape of wrestling is so changed today from what it used to be. If you think of classic heels, Baron Von Raschke, Krusher, Adrain Adonis, you could see a definite difference to the Triple H's and Edges and the like. I think everyone has a longing for what once was, or parts of it, and that is why they hold onto a little bit of what wrestling was before it became the bastard son of Vince MacMahon. Not that I wouldn't have done the same thing Vince did. Heck, he's a business man, and the core tenent of any business man is to eliminate your competition if at all possible and corner the market. He did that. The only thing is, wrestling turned stale, to put it mildly, really fast because WWE doeswn't have the evil spectre of competition to fuel it's creativity machine. So wrestling, as a whole, suffers. But, as with all like monsters, it (WWE) will consume itself, sort of speaking, allowing other smaller promotions (Like TNA) to rise and square off, thus bringing WWE's creative machine back from the dumpsters. Then other, smaller indie promotions will rise in prominence, fill the place in "wrestling society" that TNA held until they were strong enough to challenge WWE, and the whole cycle will repeat itself.

In my opinion.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

That is all true and I never disagreed that fans cheer who they want. That is kind of the beauty of wrestling. If fans don't like someone for whatever reason, they can voice that. What the promotion decides to do with that reaction is their decision.

What I said above is that for all intents and purposes, with a few exceptions with Austin being one, heels and faces have a set of characteristics that, if you watch, you can easily pick up on.

Even with the boos Cena isn't begging off, he isn't insulting the fans or the place he is in, he isn't turning on other faces.

He is still technically a face whether the fans like it or not.

Meanwhile someone like Carlito or Triple H may get cheered but they still have the earmarks of a heel. In fact, they will go out of their way to tick you off.

Remember when Trish was a heel and Lita was a face but everyone knew what was going on with Matt/Lita/Edge? Lita was booed out of the buildings and Trish was cheered like crazy. She did everything she could to divert the cheers and get heat on herself but it just didn't work because of the fan reaction. Eventually WWE gave up and went with Lita and Edge rather than to fight it.

Wrestling has changed and evolved but there are still mannerisms that differentiate heels and faces. If anyone says Cena is a heel, they are wrong. He may be booed like one but he is a face. According to Faces and Heels 101 anyway.

The rest about evolution of wrestling and the changing times is very true. It isn't like it was in the 80's or even early 90's but deep down, it remains good guy vs. bad guy.

Raven put out a good teaching video/DVD on how to be a face (I think he had a heel one out now too). He discusses what faces do, how they should act, the art of being a face, the struggle, getting people behind you, and dealing with negative reactions as a face. Funny since he was a heel for the greater part of his Raven career but very informative. I don't know if it is around to rent some place (doubt it) but he definitely gives insider insight into the face/heel world.

Gotta stop now, Kid Rock is on TV. Woot!

LOL Patty.

I am having a hard time with this, chalk it up to a way to deep subject for such a shallow mind. (<~~<<Luckily I caught this before I posted, I mean, as far as shallow mind, ME! Almost got in trouble there!)

I do not disagree with you about the principal of face/heel 101.

Here is what I mean, using me as an example.

I am wrestling tonight. My opponent is Quiz. Quiz is fairly new to the promotion, he has only been here for a couple of months, but when he left his old promotion he was one of the most popular faces they had. He came into our promotion with high expectations, and since he was so over in his last job, he recieved a huge push from his new employer. I mean H U G E. They had such big plans for him, Quiz was seen as the future of this company. However something funny started to happen almost immediatly. Quiz began to notice that his entrance pop was getting less and less. All the cheers he was accustomed to hearing slowely started changing to boos. How could this be? he is busting his arse, coming up with very interesting, fantastic spots never before seen. HE KNOWS BACK AT HIS OLD PROMOTION THE PEOPLE WOULD BE GOING ABSOLUTELY BANANAS! The promoter notices this too, so he began to try and figure out an angle that would get him back over and bring the fans to their senses. Well, the promoter comes up with this brilliant scheme: Feed Quiz a bunch of heel opponents in rapid succession, and then set up a HUGE FUED with TGO, the number one heel ever to work in (Place your favorite promotion here). That brings us to the match with TGO and quiz. Oh, how the people love to hate TGO! When he is in the ring he grates on the fans nerves! He calls fans idiots! He calls the fans fat! (For some reason people just HATE that, THANKS RICK RUDE!) He insults the woman, he makes bad jokes about the hometown. And he is Booed, and he is dissed! And the fans, like I said, LOVE TO HATE TGO.
TGO comes out first to a very bad funeral dirge. The fans immediatly start booing. Cups fly through the air, heck, a little girl spits on TGO. But, that's ok, to me (TGO, was sounding way to much like the Rock, I just stole the name, not the third person referencing, but I am to far into this to change now). TGO get's into the ring and starts to flip off the fans, throw the cups back at the fans, and even growls at the ring announcer.

Ok! Showtime, here comes Quiz! Certainly now the fans will HAVE to cheer him because, well, he is the better alternative! Quizes music hits ( I don't know, let's steal Hulk Hogans Music for this one)Quiz hears a pop! A big one! THE CROWD IS ACTUALLY CHEERING LOUDER THEN QUIZ EVER HEARD, EVEN BACK AT HIS OLD TERRITORY! His spirits soar, he puff's up his chest, and Quiz walks through the curtain! But, when Quiz does his chest deflates. His spirits crash. The crowd is totally into cheering all right, but because the little girl who spit on TGO was now in the ring, wrapped around his leg and biting him on the ankle. TGO is hopping around, squealing like a girl and the crowd is totally cheering her on.

Fast forward to the middle of the match. Quiz is going over, but he is fighting from behind and really getting manhandled by TGO. However, somewhere after security hauled off the rabid little girl, and the EMTS arrival to put a bandaid on TGO's ankle and the opening bell to now, a phenomana (spell?) of epic proportions begin to take shape. The fans...start slowely, but pop a cheer whenever TGO executes a move on Quiz. TGO see's this as a slap in his face. TGO must not be doing his job as a heel because he is getting...gulp, cheered. So TGO pulls out every trick he know. TGO punches with a closed fist. TGO pokes and rakes the eyeball. TGO doesn't break clean on a ropebreak. TGO even begins to berate the referee for a "slow Count" everytime TGO goes for a pin. But, here comes Quiz! TGO has Quiz in a key lock! Quizes foot begins to bounce. Then Quiz begins to shake. Quiz raised one arm with a clenched fist and pumps the air, shaking uncontrollably with adrenalin! Quiz starts to raise himself up and pulls TGO over with an arm drag! AND THE CROWD IS STRANGELY...NOT INTO IT. Oh, how TGO sells it! That arm drag was the most devestating arm drag ever done in the entire world, and it has TGO reeling! What's this? TGO is employing the time honored tradition of any heel worth his salt, he is...begging off! Oh no! The sign the tide is changing! Quiz shoots TGO into the ropes and then executes a devestating dropkick! What's this? The fans boo! Ok, Quiz can change that. Quiz bodyslams TGO then ascends to the top rope to attempt his signature, never before seen, and never to be duplicated SIDEWAYS REVERSED 450 SPLASH X'S 2! (Use your imagination) OK! THAT HAD TO DO IT! Surely the fans can appreciate Quizes athletic ability, that move is simply AWSOME! What? What's this? Can Quiz believe his ears? "Quiz Su Ck s! Quiz Su Ck s!" The chant is deafaning! Quiz can't believe it! TGO can't believe his ears either, but he can't do anything about it because he is SUCH A GOOD WRESTLER WITH A SUPERIOR UNDERSTANDING OF WRESTLING PRINCIPALS that TGO knows he has to sell the Sideways Reversed 450 Splash X's 2, like he is dead, or the move with lose all credibility and mean next to nothing when it is used in the future (Right, Patty? LOL).

Boy, QUIZ IS MAD! QUIZ IS INCENSED! How dare these people do this to him! He gave these people everything he had, he did everything he could possibly do to win a pop worthy of the leading babyface! Suddenly it hits him! He will climb to the rafters! That's right, Quiz will climb to the rafters and...DO THE JIMMY SNUKA! So Quiz climbs out of the ring and heads toward the crowd. He will go through the crowd, bringing himself into contact with the fans and try to turn some of them his way with personal contact, another time honored tradition in Babyface 101! So Quiz reaches the crowd, and he climbs over the security rail and....get's mugged. His hair get's pulled. He is kicked. He is slapped. AND SUM A MA B*T**! SOMEONE LET THAT CRAZY LITTLE GIRL BACK IN! Quiz brings his hands and arms to his face because the little girl is clinging to his head, trying her best to bite his nose clean off! Finally the security gaurds fight there way through the crowd and wrench the little girl off of Quizes face, they pry open her mouth and hand Quiz the tip of his nose back. Some more security comes and finishes escorting Quiz to the sidewall where an access ladder is so he can climb to the rafters and "Superfly" TGO. UP quiz goes, rung by rung, step by step. Blood spattering the ground in big, crimson circles. Surely the crowd will get behind Quiz, after seeing him go through absolute HELL to entertain them. Then he is there! Perched 40, maybe 50 feet above the ring, directly over TGO! Here is the moment of truth! Flashing classic Snuka "I love you" sign with his hands, Quiz closes his eyes, say's a silent prayer then takes flight! Quiz plummets to the mat like a stone and hits TGO square in the chest! They both disappear in a gigantic hole in the ring! The referee looks down with a wide eyed look of amazement, then jumps into the hole and the crowd is chanting "HOLY S**T! HOLY S**T!" The crowd hears a muffled, somewhat echoey 1-2-3! HE DID IT! Quiz pinned TGO! The ref climbs out of the hole, dragging the almost lifeless body of Quiz with him, and attempts to raise his hand. Quiz is almost lost to unconsciousness, but he fights to hear the adoring crowd cheer him for the first time ever in that arena. But he can't keep his eyes open! Slowely they close, and Quiz succumbs to the darkness, the last thing he ever heard before he is to awaken 25 day's later out of a coma is a slow, mumbling but unmistakeable...misxture of heckling from the crowd.

A full 88 and one half minutes later, and 85 minutes after the show officially ended the crowd, to a person, is still in their seats. All of a sudden, what's this! A Hand! OUT OF THE HOLE RISES WHAT APPEARS TO BE TGO'S BENT, TWISTED, ANGUISHED HAND! TGO pulls himself out of the hole and rolls his broken bent body to the outside of the ring. The crowd is silent, but all of a sudden ERUPTS in cheers! They give TGO a standing ovation! Hell, even the psycho little girl is standing on a chair waving a towel over her head! The masses rush to the side of the ring and pick up TGO! TGO is people serfing all over the whole arena! Then, to the song of "He's a jolly good fellow" TGO is returned to the ring where he grabs a mike to address the crowd. "First of all" TGO begins, genuinley moved by the turn of events (Spell again? LOL) "I want to say to all the fat, ugly, out of shape pieces of trailer park trash here in attendance, I have never had a better time with a bunch of idiots then I have here today!"

The lights fade, and TGO moves onto the next town, ready to do it all over again.

THE END

Patty,

Wow, that was fun! Hey, you know I love ya, and I wasn't trying to condescend you, I was giving an example of the scene of wrestling as it can be found today. Also, I hope you got a sense of TGO's MASTERY of the principals of face/heel 101. I understand the premise, but you can't honestly tell me that if you was to take the above, messed up story and insert your favorite 50's 60's or 70's heel, and same for faces, that it would work. It can't! Do you know what I mean? LOL, if not, then I GIVE UP!

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

OMG! I just re-read that post I typed last night, lol. Boy is it out there. Well, what do you expect when it is past my bedtime, I am zonked out on my medicine, and my mind is totally on auto pilot, lol! I told you all that it sure isn't boring to me and the voices that take up residence in my head!

Anyone want a tour of TGO's psyche? It won't be boring, that I assure you, but I warn you, once you get inside my head, you may not want to leave, lol.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

And laddies and Gentlemen, that is why you should never type whilst being tired.

Did you know that being tired is actually worse than being drunk. True Fact.

Anyway, I think we should not confuse "Fan Favourite" with "Face", or, "The Guys getting booed" with "Heel".

In times past these may have usually been one and the same. But not now. However, a Face is a Face whether the fans like him or not.

Cena is classic. I just watched the other night Cena vs HHH & Edge in a handicap match. Cena (Face) vs HHH & Edge (Heels). There's no denying that. But Cena got booed whilst HHH got cheered. Doesn't make HHH a face now does it?

Therefore as I said before. Leave Cena as he is, it'll only get more and more iritating, esp if he really "tries" to win over the fans. And I gotta say, I LOVE seeing Cena take [censored].

Tikus

Tic,
Ok, I got one more example in me. Are you familiar with Robin Hood? He stole from the rich to give to the poor. Now, stealing is a heel tactic, yet Robin was cheered by the masses as a face!

I guess, to put the period at the end of the sentence before I retire this argument, that I was just trying to say the line today is very blurred. Sure, call Cena a face. Cena employes face attributes. He is getting booed. I think since Cena can call himself a face, and that because he does he is technically a face, I will take to calling myself The Ruler Of The World. I mean, if I docall myself that, it makes it so, right?

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

mmm, I think you need to be on planet TGO to understand that one.

My point is, just becasue you're cheered, does not make you a face.

If a wrestler such as HHH gets cheered becasue he beats the [censored] out of everyone. Continues to cheat, uses the sledgehammer, and generally keeps fighting other supposed fan favourites; and yet HE is the one getting the cheers. Then he is still NOT a face, he is a fan favourite.

Maybe we will have to agree to disagree.

Whats a Tag TEam without a little dissent now and then?

Tik'

Never said a face was a heel, or vice-verse. All I said was there are no true heel or faces, in the sense that ALL the rules are being broke. Maybe we need to invent another word for the English lexicon : FAEL! half face, half heel, and obviously what I didn't do to explain my side, I failed, or faeled.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

We're all familiar with wrestling terminology (mild disagreements aside). But what is the origan behind some of the words. I mean, why do we actually use the terms "face", "heel" and "mark"?
Anyone know?

Tikus

I have no idea what you were talking about so let's just agree to disagree. I honestly don't know what that whole story meant and I read it twice.

Mark is an old carnival term that they used when picking people who would buy into their illusions or games. They would pick their marks and go after them because they felt those people would believe anything. There is some controversy as to exactly where that term came from but I was told by a wrestler that it was the term from the carnival days that was passed down.

Baby face stems from the fact that most good guys were clean shaven good guys. Now it is usually just a face rather than a babyface but some still use babyface when talking about a good guy.

Heel is is just from the word heel where people were often called heels when hey did something bad to someone else. From dictionary.com" "A dishonorable man; a cad."

Some will say otherwise and have stories about where these words came from. The same goes for DDT which Jake Roberts started. He named it after the killer pesticide but people to this day believe it means something else.

Patty,

The problem is I KNOW what I mean, I just lack the verbiage to express it. Anyway, that was written a week ago when I was trying to explain a theory I had about no true faces or heels anymore, but only tweeners and shades of gray. In reading some of yours, and others posts since then I do see things a little differently, but for the most part I stand by what I say, as I believe it to be true what I said. But, opinions, as they say are aplenty, everyone has one!

I wrote the story of Quiz and myself to illustrate a point I was trying to make, but it was late and I was zonked out on medicine I have to take so I was higher then a kite. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT I WAS THINKING! LOL But I got a kick out of my story, and no doubt the real Quiz can't wait to get me in the ring and "thank" me firsthand for dragging him into my madness.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />