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Is there no end to the lows the WWE will sink too for ratings?

Stephanie McMahon "drugged" Shawn Micheals before his match with Shane McMahon and Poor Shawn was staggering, stumbling blind and was at Shane O'Mac's mercy.

Obviously, it's part of a story line. However, with all of the stuff in the news about drugs, especially date rape drugs and now they're showing it being used in wrestling.

Vinnie's going to keep pushing the envelope and one day it's going to come back and haunt him.

Also, I don't think it's right that they should celebrate any spread in any adult magazine with young children in the audience. I was embarrassed for those parents there and the parents watching at home. However, I know that subject has been hit upon many times as well and it's like beating a dead horse. What's the sense of it?

Sorry. Further rants from a disgruntled fan <img src="/images/graemlins/computer.gif" alt="" />

The drugging thing was so immature and silly. I just shook my head because, if that is all WWE can think of, I'm worried.

Stephanie's pregnancy being written in was OK but what did fans think who don't realize she is married to Triple H in real life? Many fans think she was faking the pregnancy thing to make Shawn feel sorry for her when, in reality, her baby is due in July.

The Playboy thing is done every year and they didn't show much skin so I wasn't too down on it.

I was much more down on how lame the "drugged Shawn" storyline was. Yeck. The plan was for Marty Jannetty to be forced to wrestle Shawn, I believe, but Marty had trouble getting the OK to travel to Raw so that's what they came up with....

I wish they would have called me or any one of you. We could have come up with better. lol.

Anyone that takes children to the matches or lets them view it on TV should know that it is going to be a Adult show,but I agree that the drugging was not a good idea.I have 3 boys and they grew up going to all the local matches, it was our family thing. By the way they grew up fine.

To advertise drugs in any fashion is just stupid, talk about giving people the wrong impression about the sport?!

A lot of the story lines need to be looked at as so many of them currently are very tasteless...

Recently I tend to spend about 10-15 minutes every show telling my kids about what they should not do and why, ie use of drugs and the dangers of using them etc..

My kids were literally weaned on wrestling and now, at 20 and 15, neither smoke, drink, take drugs, has ever gotten into legal trouble, or even swear around us. They were right in the hub of WCW traveling with me from town to town, arena to arena. The backstage of the arenas were more familiar than their own home for a few years. BUT....

If I had little kids now, I would definitely either tape the show so I know what they will do before my kid sees it or explain as I did with my kids that wrestling is not real life and what they say or do is not cool (if it is bad) and the wrestlers are just playing a role like actors do and they don't really hate America, take drugs, beat up women, etc.

I doubt I would take a little kid (Under about 8) to a WWE show though.

Actually my biggest worry is that they will emulate the wrestling moves more than seeing Vince's bare butt or women in skimpy clothes.

Still, Vince is making a mockery of his own drug policy by first saying he wanted the old "pill popping party boy Shawn back" and then looking in the camera with a goofy smile and saying "Don't take drugs". That wasn't needed and it just seems to me he is laughing in the face of his own policy.

But who knows with Vince these days?

By the way, neither of my sons watches wrestling AT ALL and they think it is dumb. My older one said it lost all appeal for him when Papa Shango, Warrior, and UT stopped being surreal. The younger one is just sick of hanging out with wrestlers and they mean nothing to him on TV. Maybe I OD'd them! lol

The drugging of Shawn was kind of on the silly side, but as far as the hypocracy, I really don't pay it no mind. Turn on the news any day of the week and you will see stories about drugs, and violence and who knows what else, and THAT'S for real. As far as the sex content and inuendo on wrestling, again, turn on the news, or tv. Heck, soap operas during the day show a lot of racey programming. You can't throw bleach on everything and make it squeaky clean, especailly wrestling. Wrestling is a good berometer for what popular culture is, if you have a problem what's on wrestling, I venture to say you have a problem with life in general. That is my humble opinion, and I hope I didn't offend anyone, that was not my intention. If so, I apologize.

Chris

A lot of people think that way and I am not so sure I do. I realize that wrestling isn't supposed to be squeaky clean and I don't mind a lot of what they do. I roll my eyes at a lot of it (Vince thinks all women kiss on the lips, all fart jokes are hilarious, all women must have enormous breasts or no one will find them attractive except Stacey who had the legs, that wrestlers should look like bodybuilders even if they can't move in the ring...lot of eye rolling).

I don't think, though, that if Vince (or any promotion head) wants to sell merchandise to kids - foam fingers, little shirts, masks, toys, etc., he should push the envelope too far.

The news is what it is. It's a terrible reality.

Soaps don't cater to kids nor want them to watch and I am relatively certain most little kids would be bored to death watching a soap opera.

But wrestling is magic to kids. They love it. And that's cool but what Vince (and others) have done is to try to create a product that adults (who buy the PPVs and have the money) will watch and want to be titillated by while still catering to the 7 and 8 year olds by having cartoony characters and zillions of toys and merchandise for them.

He wants it all. Most shows appeal to certain demographics. Adult shows like (for example) CSI go for the older market. Cartoons go for the younger market. Sitcoms gof or another set of demos.

WWE tries to go for ALL demos which I don't think can be done without some thought on the part of the people writing.

If they want 7 and 8 years olds in the audience, maybe having live sex in the ring isn't the best idea. If they want only adults, maybe the cartoony stuff can go.

I just want WWE to be a little bit responsible for themselves and their storylines.

At least the Tim White stuff is off TV. But accessible to all anyway.

Parents have to decide what they want their kids to see. If wrestling isn't it, they should turn it off.

When my kids watched, it was clean. A morning show was what they watched and the violence was there of course but none of the rest of the stuff. And, as I said, I do worry about kids trying to wrestle and hurting someone or themselves. That is why I sat with my son when he was watching and pointed out that the moves these people do are not simple and they DO hurt but that they are done but people who are trained and that the two guys in the ring don't really want to hurt each other.

It didn't hit home until we were at a show and my son saw two rivals on TV sitting in the hotel restaurant together laughing and eating a meal together.

Hopefully parents clue kids in to what is real and what isn't and, if they are upset by the content, either don't let their kids watch or edit what they see.

If a parent brings a kid to a show and is offended by what happens, it's really their own fault. WWE is not politically correct even though they see all the little faces out there. (I wish they were a little less crass like with the Eddie Guerrero storylines they have used since his death but I know they will never be.)

We all have to decide for ourselves what is offensive and what isn't.

Wow, ramble much? I just wrote a column! lol

Well Patty, an excellent commentary, if I do say so myself. Ok, I was reaching with the soap opera analogy, but have you watched the cartoons out there lately? They arn't so innocent! And I do have my "problems" with certain choices WWE, amongst other promotions, for instance the recent dabacle with Randy Orton talking about my personal hero Eddie Guerrero the way he did. That was beyond tasteless, and it made me more then a little sick to my stomach for his family and close friends. The Tim White angle is stupid, and doesn't make sense to me, that is WWE reaching. But I stand by everything else I said. Vince is doing the smart business thing going after the adult market who spends huge PPV money. Now an argument can be made that the demo of kids is just as big, if not bigger, and that maybe Vince is doing what he is doing because he simply can, but if you are a parent, tape the show, edit out what you don't want them to see. Talk to and explain to your kids the very things you did for your son. I can tell you wrestling has been in a bit of a rut with idiotic storylines and the pushing of the envelope, part of that is because there is no more competition since Vince cornered the market so they got stale, but thats another post for another time. At the end of the day don't turn over the raising of your kids to the tv, if you have that much of a problem with it, or you don't have time to sit for a chat with your kids to explain the finer points, use the magical invention of the remote control and turn the channel. And that's all I got to say about that! :-)

I agree that parents are the ones who need to monitor what their kids watch. If parents didn't take their kids to wrestling, the market for toys would go down, and either the product would change or the target demo would change.

I think TNA is a safer alternative for kids if people are worried about sex, drugs, and all that. However, all wrestling is violent and the violence is what people need to watch for because kids have no idea the damage they could cause trying to wrestle. I remember walking into my kid's room only to see him trying to piledrive his brother. I about died. Sheesh.

But adults are getting offended as well. Sure we can say if you don't like it, turn it off but there are some fans who love the wrestling but hate how far the promotion goes with storylines. I was burning mad about the Eddie stuff, so mad that I didn't get too into it on the BellaOnline website. It would have come off as a rant.

I can always tell when Vince is getting desperate. He resorts to shock tactics and silliness. He can do all this because he is back on USA and they allow it all.

I guess all we can do is either ignore the silly or offensive stuff and enjoy the good stuff or not watch. There isn't much else we CAN do. Ratings will reflect what fans want and WWE will have to change. But they need competition. ASAP.

Hi,
I've been reading the forum on this topic and just a few things. It's very true that as parents we take the lead on our children. I'm a mother of two boys(17&19) thankfully they grew up fine and should I say in spite of being huge fans of Austin, Razor, Ultimate,Diesel and the list goes on.
And I do have to agree with Chris that wrestling can be the barometer of popular culture.
In re: to the wonderful wacky and scary world of wrestling I miss the tongue in cheek storylines and at times downright absurdidly funny storylines. I'm thinking of Mankind's Mr. Socko and when The Rock really started to rock and Austin beating up Mcmahon. Looking back on that era which is when I really got into wrestling I found that when WWE went into funny and just plain silly storylines is when it worked. It showed that not taking yourself to seriously and poking fun at yourself can reach all the demographics you want to reach; it was kinda like bringing the kid out in you. . I've missed SD but Burchill's pirate is an example of where I'm going with this. Now with Johnny Depp's new Pirates movie coming they can really play it up. The Boogeyman is another character in spite of his limited ability it's the character that works and Sharmell putting on a beekeeepers outfit is hilarious. I like the silly side of storylines they're fun and completely safe. It's when you go into dark territory like the drug storylines that after watching it you wonder ok. what was the point of that? and most of these storylines are shortlived and anticlimatic. Now a pirate, well that's another story..............

I totally agree with Chris and others about the ultimate responsibilty being with the parent/s.

However, It would be nice for WWE to offer a more PG rated show that you could tune into with no fear of being too offended. And to have a MA15+ show on, in an appropriate time slot. Remember when RAW was touted as the cutting edge show with the RAW content? I liked that.

3 other quickies here;
What is SD? It's not "Special Delivery Jones" I gather
What happened with the Tim White thingy? I only every heard about it on this forum.
And lastly, Patty, for a mother of 2 (at 20 & 15yrs toboot).
Still looking good <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (Please take that as purely complimentary)

Tikus

PS. Thumbs up to all parents. Tough job, I may try it out one day.

SD is Smackdown. Just easier to spell.

Tim White tried to commit suicide every week for many weeks and always blew it. He shot himself, suffocated himself, ate rat poisoning, hung himself, you name it. Finally, they ended the whole series with him deciding he didn't want to die after all and supposedly shooting Josh Matthews who was there for all his attempts.

Ridiculous and had NO place anywhere let alone the net where kids can see and maybe get ideas from.

Being a mother to wrestling kid fans is tough. You have to decide where to draw the line and what to tell your kids, I told mine the truth and ponted out exactly how they did what they did (to the best of my knowledge then, I was not schooled at all in that stuff at the time).

My kids obviously got to see everything, practice in the ring, and hang out with the guys so they lost the starry eyed magical feeling way before they may have otherwise and no longer watch (Though I think my 20 year old watches again because he has been mentioning names and storylines. I think his friends are fans and he watches with them).

I liked it when they did the morning recaps which were for kids that left out the hardcore stuff. That is what my son watched at 5 years old! It was fine, there wasn't a lot of craziness although all wrestling is violent. Now you never know what you will see or hear. On SD, they stay clean the first hour as it come son at 8 p.m. here and that hour is considered family viewing, After 9, they get more violent and more stupid. The rating even changes to PG14.

An Thank you Tikus. I'm an old bat but I try to stay fit at least.

You're Welcome

Hey Tikus,

I agree, it would be wonderful to have a weekend morning, kid friendly version of wrestling to let the kids watch. The wrestling of today certainly is a lot different from when I was a kid, a lot racier and with too much emphasis put in what I call the T and A factor. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of the Divas, but I am sad wrestling lost a lot of innocense, and I would gladly give the Divas up for kid friendly aspect that I remember as, well, magical.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I would gladly give the up the T&A (well, obviously) for divas who can wrestle. Without wearing a bloody skirt and thong!

Well, here's where they can have their cake and eat it too.

Sat morning show for the kids and adults who don't want the (?)-rated stuff.

And a later racier show as they have now, WITHOUT, the kiddy stuff.

I don't know why they don't do it?

Tik'

All these things that you see & complain about on a WWE show are scripted & part of a story. When you see these things happening right in front of your eyes in real life, then worry or take action. Otherwise, you're worry over nothing. If it's simulated, it's nothing but entertainment.
Being guilty of bad taste or good taste is a matter of perception determined by that particular individual.
If you don't have the time to spend time with your childern to help put things in the right context, then you shouldn't have kids in the first place.

Thanks for your opinion. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions as to how they would like to see the shows deal with adult or offensive content.

Scripted or not, it can be offensive and everyone has to decide what they want their kids to see and it would be helpful if they knew before it happened that two people are going to simulate sex in the ring.

However, I agree, parents have the ultimate responsibility to decide how to best deal with this situation.

I do NOT agree that people worry over "nothing" because it is on TV or elsewhere rather "in front of their eyes". Kids are extremely influenced by what they see and hear whether on TV, at school, at home, wherever. They don't really know the difference between scripted and real. Heck, I know adult fans who don't so it is a lot more complicated, I believe, than you stated. I do respect your opinion however.

I think there is a HUGE difference between having a couple of woman wrestling, even in skimpy attire, and the "Live Sex Show" recently staged between Edge and Lita. That was not only a stupid concept, but of such bad taste that I just rolled my eyes. For Christmas a couple of years ago I got a video about the divas, it had Sable and Jacklyn (yes, I know I butchered her name), Chyna and a couple of others. In the video they showed the famous Sable bodypaint bikini, and it showed Jacklyn (see above spelling disclaimer)at the same contest pull aside her bikini top to expose her breasts. Now, to put such content in a video to be slapped with a parental warning and sold to adults, well, that's one thing. But these were clips from PPV's and RAW clips, seen of course by millions, a lot of them kids. I will leave it up to you to say where to draw the line.

~Chris <img src="/images/graemlins/king.gif" alt="" />

I think we mistaken the word, "sex" for "sex appeal." Yes, there's a difference.

For example, people argue that Paris Hilton used "sex" in her commercial to help sell hamburgers. I disagree. She wasn't having sex on a car. She was displaying sex appeal while washing the car. And don't forget that everyone's perceptions are different. For example, I personally don't find Paris Hilton or her type attractive anyways & i'm sure that i'm not the only one.
Regardless, it's a natural God given part of life & I feel that we shouldn't feel threatend or uncomfortable by these images even if our kids catch a glance.

I would be more concerned about the childern mimmicking the choreographed wrestling itself. This is simulated violence. Violence is much more harmful than sex appeal.

The FCC spends all it's time, resources & energies censoring images that they & the media label as "sex" when it's really sex appeal. But it's ok to show programs & movies where people are being shot up to a bloody pulp by an AK47. It doesn't make sense. The FCC definitley need to get their priorities straight.

I have long said that I am more worried about kids mimicking wrestling holds or violence than I am seeing sexual situations. With my kids, I was more worried they would break their necks trying to wrestle than I was if they saw a girl in her panties.

You make a good point and I agree that violence, perceived or real, is more harmful to kids in many ways than sex appeal and sexual suggestion.

I still wasn't thrilled when my kids were little and something overtly sexual happened in wrestling (which was much rarer than it is now) but that was my job as a parent to decide if it was suitable for them to see.

The only problem I have is that WWE lures kids in with foam fingers, masks, toys, and all sorts of things then presents very adult material. They really should decide what demographic they are going after than go after them.

An adult oriented (I am talking 16 and up not 21) night show with a weekend morning one hour recap show without the highly sexually oriented content may help WWE to cover all the bases. Still the violence will be there - chair shots, blood, etc.

Parents have to explain what pro wrestling is. Frankly, I don't know why anyone lets their 6 or 7 year old kids watch WWE at all but that is just me, I guess.

Still, some warning that an off the charts sexual simulation is going to happen would help parents to decide whether to turn the station or not at that point. I am just glad I don't have to worry about any of that right now. My kids are old enough to not like wrestling on their own and if they did, nothing would shock them.

If I had a 6 year old, I would probably not let them watch WWE but would let them watch TNA and explain like I did to my kids at the time, what pro wrestling was all about.

What do you all think? Is it the sexual references or the violence that bothers you more when it comes to kids watching wrestling?

It is the sexual stuff that bothers me more with the kids. Sure, the violence is one thing but you can explain that away by telling kids that they are not really mad at each other and that they constantly practice this stuff and some people get hurt by accident and that is why you (the kids) shouldn't practice this stuff.

The sexual overtones are different. We are living in a society that preaches abstinence and STD's and that they should wait until they are married for that kind of thing. Then when they see the people that could be considered role models doing it or simulating it rather, its a little more hard to explain away.

Discussing sex with children is hard enough for some people and then having to explain it during a wrestling show is that much more difficult.

I mean how do you explain the live sex show with Edge and Lita? Or Vince McMahon making out with a woman who is not his wife? How do you explain the vignette between Melina and Batista?

Heck, I get embarrassed when that stuff happens. Even now when they have bra and panty matches on tv, I turn it to another channel. There is no room in wrestling for the soft core porn stuff that goes on.

Everyone has their own opinions about the subject and this is mine. I would much rather choose the violence over the sex. Violence and wrestling go hand in hand. Sex and wrestling do not.

I would rather let my kids watch Power Rangers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turles than Sex in the City or Cinemax After Dark.

Then again, I won't let my kids watch wrestling until they are old enough to differentiate between what is real and what is simulated anyway. Probably not until they are 30 or so. lol.

The sexual overtones in wrestling are ridiculous and one day someone is going to get burned by it. Vince almost did with the groping accusation.

Well, that's my opinion. Take it for what its worth.

Good points all.

I think the sexual overtones make a lot of people uncomfortable, not only because of kids watching. I feel a little put off with some of the lame groping especially when it is Vince and a young woman. Ergh.

I think on the whole WWE is just not for young kids. I see kids as young as 3 or 4 in the audience. I remember taking my younger son to a WWE show when he was...6 ish maybe(?) and he hid under the chair when Undertaker's music started. he was scared to death. This was my now 15 year old. My older one loved all the surreal stuff when he was little. I guess each kid is very different as well.

Still, I feel embarrassed for the parents in the crowd who are sitting with their 8 year old kids when something really tasteless or sexual happens. I hope they are explaining the simulated violence and not allowing them to try the moves at home. But really what do you say about sexual things? "It's not real, her nipple didn't just slip out of her shirt." or "See. Vince is married and just pretending to be touching and kissing Candice because uhh...uhh..." or "Mickie didn't really push her face against Trish's crotch and lick her fingers...that was all just fake."

Comes off as sort of hollow, eh?

When kids understand & recognize the value of LOVE coming first before sex, they will know to question all other forms of sexual expression & recognizing it as something that really isn't the right thing to do.

This is how I probably would explain your examples

"It's not real, her nipple didn't just slip out of her shirt."

It's just a nipple. All women have them & it's nothing to be embarrased about or made a big deal out of. Did that make you feel uncomfortable? Why?

"See. Vince is married and just pretending to be touching and kissing Candice because uhh...uhh..."

Vince is doing something he shouldn't be doing because he's playing a character that supposed to be evil or a really bad guy. He wants his "bad guy" character to be more believable by doing bad things that people shouldn't do in real life.

"Mickie didn't really push her face against Trish's crotch and lick her fingers...that was all just fake."

I remember this happening & specifically don't remember Micki James licking her fingers. Though I agree this is a tough one even for me. I think that since this happened so quickly, most kids wouldn't of even noticed, but I could be wrong.

All in all this is why first & foremost, we need to recognize that this show is on at 9pm on a school/work night for a reason. Parents that let there young childern stay up consistently past this hour &/or allow TV's in the bedrooms are doing them a disservice to begin with in my opinion.

Talking about sex & issues pertaining to sex doesn't just stop with that 1 talk about the birds & the bees. It should be at the forefront of discussion throughout there years of growing up especially during their teen years.
Otherwise, when it's time for them to leave the house they are not going to know how to deal with these things as it looks them straight in the face so to speak.

Obviously you have to talk to kids about sex. And they see it everywhere. It is inevitable and, in my house, it's not a big deal for me to walk around in something scant (covered of course but not enough to go outside that way). I am probably one of the most liberal people when it comes to discussing sexual things with my kids. To the point where they tell ME to shut up.

But still, SD airs at 8 p.m. The shows come to town on weekends. Sometimes they are in the afternoon.

It's really a tough call for parents. I don't know if you are one but when you are, it is just a maze of confusion with kids. How much they should know, how they should know, WHAT they should know...

WWE likes to push the envelope with sexual things all the while pushing the Boogeyman and Undertaker - and until recently - Hurricane who kids take to and who appeal to them in one way or the other.

It is like WWE, as I said, wants it all. They want to sell their masks and their toys and their fake chains but they also want to shock and titillate the adults.

I suppose it all comes down to what a parent is willing to allow their kids to see.

As far as a nipple slip, yeah, if my kid was 8 I would be embarrassed. Once, my kid was around 11 and we were at a show and there was a lot of skin shown and, in fact, HHH convinced a girl to lift her top and expose her breasts, which she did, and it was displayed on a large screen. My son was completely embarrassed. Not because of it, I suppose, but because here he is sitting with his MOTHER and some woman is shaking her naked boobs on a big screen. I just looked at him and said...."I hope you don't date girls like that."

What could I say? We went to see wrestling, we got boobies.

As I said I am just glad my kids are older now and find WWE completely silly. They will watch TNA when the X Division is on but that is about it.

So, I got through it, they got through it, and all is well. I now allow other parents to deal with their kids when something happens that they need to explain.

I don't believe wrestling will poison the minds of kids even if they watch it unmonitored. I do think the real young ones should probably either watch something else or have a parent tape it and fast forward through things that the parent feels are not appropriate for kids at the age they are to see.

I have something to add to what Force said as well. You can explain it all away you want to but the fact is it is shown where it shouldn't be and the WWE should have some kind of parental disclaimer before there shows come on.

If I explained it to my kids the way you suggested, then it wont fly if my son goes to school and does something to a girl like Vince did. Then if he tried to explain the reason for him doing it is because he saw someone on tv doing it and I had told him the man was playing a bad guy, then my son would probably think its all right for him to do it too because he was just playing and he was playing a bad guy as well.

Abstinence from watching wrestling is still the best choice for them until they are older.