BellaOnline Forums Travel and Culture Polish Culture These people in New Orleans

I hope that this hurricane would not be as bad as predicted, but it seems that this kind of disaster was already predicted earlier - the only unknown was - when it would happen.

There is a person from New Orleans, a Polish-American man who is sending me to my home address many messages with links etc.

This is what he sent me today:


For the latest on Katrina Hurricane:
http://www.wwltv.com/

I live 19 ft off the ground in a solid brick building. Just concerned about my new car in the uncovered secured parking lot.

Will keep you posted.
Hope Katrina moves to the East. Better for us.
Paul

I put my new car in a parking garage- 7th floor.
Dinner time today will start getting winds.
____________

Here is one of the original pictures from the satellite:

[imageBellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

I hope, I will not make a soap opera story from my correspondence with Paul:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In a message dated 8/28/2005 4:30:34 PM Central Standard Time, jaga writes:

Paul,

your life is more important than your car, please go to a safe place
and keep us posted

Jaga

I shall.
Thanks !

WWLTV.COM

good coverage of Katrina.

Jaga,

Is this "PJ" who has an aol account? He often sends email to me also, but I did not know he lives in New Orleans.

Nancy,

jest, you are right. Paul was going to come to the forum but he did not know how to register

This storm is a very baaad one and all our friends in the path are in our prayers. Things and property can be replaced or repaired; life cannot. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Is anyone else watching all the coverage about this hurricane? The devastation has been likened to that seen after the tsunami, and it seems things continue to get worse. The destruction along that part of the Gulf Coast seems unimaginable.

I worry now about Paul - did the windows in his building blow out? Is he stranded in his building without water, electricity, etc. Will he be evacuated?

Somehow I think people who could have gotten out before the storm should have gone - it must be impossible circumstances now.

oh- my husband just telephoned on his way to work - gasoline prices have gone overnight from $2.69 per gallon to $3.35 at our local station. With all the refineries in LA shut down, prices will only go higher. I am glad I work from my computer at home.

Until yesterday I was not aware of the extend of this disaster. I guess, after the pomps in New Orlean stopped working - this area looks like a complete disaster.

I am sure that Paul survived but he may be not safe (journalists were saying about groups of people walking on the streets and asking for money) and he surely does not have electricity and internet.

I surely hope that he is gone but he may not have an easy access to the car...

My 14 yr old son just moved out to live with his dad in Mississippi this past summer. The damage to MS is almost as bad as N.O., but w/out quite as much flooding. Luckily my ex lives in Jackson, which didn't get hit hard, but they are going to be out of power for 2 weeks. He said half of the gas stations aren't working, and of those that are, they have either run out of gas, or are taking cash only. Everything is running on a cash only basis, and all ATMs are down. They are moving in with his wife's sister who owns a recreational RV, because at least then they'll have a generator w/ air conditioning (temp is over 100, w/ humidity and mosquitos), so they will be 2 families in an RV, but still will be more comfortable!

I am driving out early tomorrow AM to get my son and bring him back to GA to stay for a while. All schools are closed because of no power, so he's not missing anything, and that will take one (very hungry) large mouth off of their hands at least. (Plus I'll have my child here where I know he's safe - I have felt so helpless thru this!)

It is hard to believe standing here in Georgia with beautiful weather and kids running around on the playground that there is such devastation just 2 state lines away. It seems like it ought to be a different world, and it really opens your eyes.

As an Englishman on this forum, I am certain that the people of the UK would wish to join me in sending heartfelt sympathy and best wishes to the people of New Orleans and the other population areas of the Gulf coast in this terrible catastrophe. To know that many will not be able to return to their homes (if any remain) for a long time yet, and will be grieving losses of their families and loved ones, must be heartrending.
My personal prayers go out to them all and again I am sure that all the Brits here are doing the same.
Leslie in sorrow

MusicalMom,

I'm sure you were glad to learn that your son is safe - it must have been heart-stopping to watch the news as the storm hit shore. And I imagine you are glad to have back him with you for a while.

It must seem incomprehensible to the people in that area that a "normal" world exists anywhere. The heat, humidity, and mosquitoes only make everything worse.

Michelle,

take care you and your son!

Here are the latest news from New Orleans:

http://www.wwltv.com/

musicalmom, I am glad thay your son and the rest of the family is safe, thank God for favors. Jaga and Nancy, I am watching the coverage of the hurricane damage almost all day. It is very terrible and there are still many years of recovery. This morning it was announced that there was an offer of help from Germany. From France, the sound of silence is defening. I guess there was no bribe money involved.

Guys,

somebody remarked - that New Orlean looks like Bangladesh during the massive catactropht - when you see the way people live there now and... how some behave.

I can in some ways understand the looting - for water and food, anyway. But I truly cannot understand the gangs with AK4s etc. What on earth is going on???

But it also occurs to ne that this Gulf coast areas looks like a war zone after bombing, something that we have not experienced here before - well, not before 9-11.

One newsperson already said that he though this event would change American society in some profound way. We will see.

Ah, Nancy, you are young or you do not remember the riots of Watts back in the '60's. That was closer to a war zone! Then there were also many, many smaller riots and demonstrations around America.

News people are part of the entertainment media. That was my decision when the first "news caster" was paid a million a year to read the news.

How will it change America? Good question. For me it was the assassination of Kennedy - we did not kill presidents back then, except in our primitive, forgotten history. For my nephew the end of America came when the first space Shuttle disintegrated. For me that was far less of a tragedy than a 747 crashing. Scientists have dangerous work adn explorers chose risky activities by definition.

The most pessimistic view would be that business will use it to push prices for all commodities much higher and push the average worker down to more of a subsistence level of existence, the better to squeeze out better profits. The end result of that would be a second advent of a feudalistic society.

No, I am not that pessimistic, but I do suspect George Orwell missed 1984 by 20 years. Big Brother is here.

Kai

Kai

No, I am getting old and forgetful ... let's just say that if I had been born male I would have had to go to Vietnam (or Canada).

Entertainment industry or not, the newscasters are showing pictures of the 30-50 miles of Gulf Coast that were most affected by Katrina. Miles of rubble, homes and businesses destroyed, thousands of homeless refugees - I think this is much bigger than Watts. Physically bigger than 9-11 although clearly Mother Nature is a far different cause of the effect.

A soldier who returned home from Irag commented that what she saw in NO was much worse than anything she had seen in Irag.



That seems to be happening already. News media are warning us about all kinds of dire effects - so when those results happen, they will say it was inevitable - hmmm, a conspiracy perhaps?

Musicalmom I am glad also; you were on my mind during the storm, with your son being in Mississippi. You know they are safe when they are under our wings! Check into the traffic and cell tower situation, and gas, before you go get your son. While the situation in New Orleans is very overwhelming, I am upset at the turn things have taken with peoples behavior. Help is there and a lot more is on the way and people Really need to be as patient and calm as possible. Yes there was looting here, we lost thousands of dollars worth of stuff to the looters, but people were not running amuk and yelling and dissing the effort to help!

Well, i have my son back in GA safe & sound! We saw many things along our "road trip" that swelled my heart with pride, and broke my heart with tears.

Convoys of truck - like 15 groups of about 25 different colored trucks all driving towards Mississippi and Louisiana to help out - it was so amazing. It made me want to cry I was so touched by the amount of kindness. There were some trucks from Michigan!

People are having to boil water to bathe! Michael said when they turned on their faucets it was brown. People are begging for ice! How we take that for granted! (An airheaded radio talkshow host goes, "well if they are just using it to preserve things, take it out of their freezers." - Hello! these people don't have electricity!)

Police cars are at every gas station to make sure people don't "hoard" gas, and supervise to make sure no violence breaks out.

A man killed his sister because she bought the last bag of ice at a convenience store in Hattiesburgh.

I keep thinking back to William Golding's "Lord of the Flies" - there was one ar two boys that stayed civilized, but the rest were savages - i look at these recent pictures of New Orleans on fire and am reminded of Hell - fire, water - but none anyone can drink, dead bodies floating, and most of the people acting insane. Can't we be better than this?

Michelle,

I am so glad you and your son are back. It makes me think about all these times of the war and after war. People had to go through the terrible times but somehow many of them were able to preserve their dignity.

We had to go through terrible time in 80-es also. There was nothing in the stores in Poland. Now, it is hard for me to believe how my mother could stay so calm and assuring the whole time. We also were given lots of help from abroad, especially from friends in Germany and my mother always distributed it among friends and family without trying secretly to store it somewhere.

We survived the bad times in 80-es in Poland, we can survive it here. Just like you said - people take so many things for granted, hard to imagine. We cannot live anymore in a simple world.

"well if they are just using it to preserve things, take it out of their freezers."
Was it Rush Limbaugh again talking stupidities?

The one question I have in all of this is.... They've had minor flooding since their last major hurricane (40 yrs. ago). Why in this time have they a) not reinforced the soil levy and b) not tried using a system similar to that of the dutch?? (They had 40 years to do this and I don't believe money was an issue)

Hussar, The Dutch apparently have offered for a long time to help with the levee system, but were politely (?) turned down (read that somewhere...) They are offering again (near the end of the following article.)

This article came from
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayArtic...September68.xml


World pledges hurricane aid to US
(AFP)

2 September 2005

PARIS - The world held out a hand to a superpower in crisis on Friday, offering hurricane disaster aid to the United States from a French offer of ships and aircraft to a 25,000-dollar donation by tsunami-pounded Sri Lanka.


Offers streamed in after the United States, the world�s biggest single aid donor, said it would be open to assistance though it was not making an appeal for foreign aid.

Scenes of chaos -- explosions and fires erupting in New Orleans, looters on the rampage, bodies in the streets, and refugees crammed into a stinking squalor in the city�s Superdome -- prompted an outpouring of shock and sympathy.

�Whatever they ask for, it will be given, from reserves of oil... to any other thing that they may need,� European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana said in Newport, Wales, during a meeting of the 25-nation bloc.

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization chief, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, said NATO stood ready to contribute.

�Whenever and wherever our NATO partner and important friend -- the United States of America -- asks (for) assistance, NATO stands ready to answer those calls,� Scheffer told a press conference during a visit to Sofia.

Among the major allies:

-- The French foreign ministry offered eight aircraft and two ships, with 600 tents and 1,000 camp beds also available at the United States� request.

-- Prime Minister Tony Blair said he had spoken to President George W. Bush, and Britain was ready to help �in any way that we can.�

�The whole of this country feels for the people of the Gulf Coast of America who have been afflicted by what is a terrible, terrible natural tragedy,� he said in a speech in Watford, southeast England.

�We want to express our sympathy and our solidarity and give our prayers and thoughts to the people who were affected by what has happened out there on the Gulf Coast,� he said.

-- German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder was personally working out the details of a relief package, a government spokesman said. Berlin could provide assistance on water treatment or shelter for people left homeless, a government spokesman said.

-- Japan offered 200,000 dollars for the American Red Cross and up to 300,000 dollars worth of tents, blankets, power generators and water tanks. Toyota offered five million dollars, Nissan 500,000 dollars.

-- Australia promised 10 million Australian dollars (7.5 million US) through the American Red Cross.

�Given the extraordinary generosity of the United States when other countries are in need, and given the very close relationship between Australia and the United States, and given also the scale of the disaster, we believe it is a very valuable gesture and a mark of our concern for the scale of the human misery that has come from this disaster,� said Prime Minister John Howard.

-- Canadian Defence Minister Bill Graham said his country was preparing a package, including an offer of military assets.

-- Among others, the Netherlands, a low-lying country that depends on its system of levees, or dams, has offered to send a team of experts to help plan the reconstruction of New Orleans. Italy said it was ready to help but had not been contacted. Sweden offered medical and technical aid. Lithuania�s Red Cross started taking donations.

More poignant were offers from the needy.

Sri Lanka -- still recovering from the December 26 tsunami which devastated the island�s coastlines and killed 31,000 people -- said it had donated 25,000 dollars and asked doctors to help the relief effort.

Somalis offered sympathy.

�New Orleans looks like Mogadishu when the war started,� said bus driver Aden Mohamud in Somalia�s war-shattered capital.

He said he was troubled by television images that showed most of the some 300,000 desperate people still trapped in New Orleans were black.

�Maybe some whites are also starving but the African Americans are who I have seen,� Mohamud said. �I am sorry they are poor like us.�

It does take a certain amount of bravery to volunteer to come and help America. We are known internationally as a violent nation and the shootings at the hospital and at a helicopter have gotten a lot of coverage.

Anyone coming to aid this country must picture it almost like going to a wild west shoot out, two levels above going to aid Africa during a civil war.

Kai

Not enought money. Kai in Alaska <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> has more powerful senators than Paul in New Orleans. 100 mln dollars would possibly reinforce the levy in Alaska - instead they spend over 200 mln for some Alaska's bridge where nobody ever goes:
++++
Republicans and Democrats in Washington recently agreed to cut federal funding to New Orleans� flood defences; this at the same time as they were passing a $268 billion (�146 billion) transport Bill that was loaded with pet projects for the districts of members of Congress, such as a $250 million bridge to nowhere in Alaska. There will be broader political consequences. The race question will be thrust centre stage, as Americans ponder the desperate poverty of mostly black New Orleanians that condemned so many to die in the deluge. They were simply too poor to leave.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1762879,00.html

Nancy. It would have helped if Louisana and New Orleans had taken the help offered by the Dutch. I think Holland has been in the business of building levees longer than we have been a nation. The pity is that a disaster brings out the good and bad in people but it is usually the bad things that get the most press.

Bob-

Very true. Biased politicians, biased rescue efforts, biased relief aid.

At least - I know first-hand - that there are a number of grass-roots efforts under way to help the people that have had to be evacuated from NO.

I think that it is hard - with bitter consequences- for people to have vision - they are almost always short sighted (what can I get today!!) I have worked for businesses that thought this way. (My boss used to say I was "negative" but I always said I was "practical.")

http://forums.bellaonline.com/images/graemlins/wall.gif

Right you are Jaga, about the powerful senators. Now the bridge to no where does go somewhere, but they have to build it first to find out where it goes! See, we are at the forefront of exploration.

On a more serious note, the Army Corps of Engineers handles the Mississippi flood levees and those for New Orleans, as well as other coastal erosion and such. They had the levee improvements and pump improvements schedueld years ago but teh funding was pulled and sent to Iraq. This is part of the price we pay.

Kai

here are some of the numbers:
"Ron Fournier of The Associated Press reported that the Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans last year. The White House carved it to about $40 million. But President Bush and Congress agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-filled highway bill with 6,000 pet projects, including a $231 million bridge for a small, uninhabited Alaskan island."

Kai,

It would be much cheaper to reinforce levees aome time ago than... recostruct the area, support so many homeless people etc etc

There are many issues which arose with this situation. It is rarely that America sees so many poor people together, there are issues of race etc. Not easy, everything complicated but finally something need to be done about it.

How long American society would divide more and more into the rich and poor? I mean rich are richer and poor are poorer.

My husband told me that it seems that the money would go mainly to petroleum industry to restore the facilities, the army went first to secure banks and institutions (again rich people). The poor human has less value than businesses and money

glad to hear your son is ok, that must have been scary for you.
The news doesnt begin to tell us what is really happening there. Thank God for the web, we woldnt know the real deal.

People are looting because they are hungry, not because they just want a new TV, they put them in the super dome with no water or food or provisions. If they were too poor to get out, they were too poor to have 5 days worth of stuff with them.
Yes, there are a few people acting crazy but most people have not eaten for 3 days. Those who were moved were taken to places and still didnt get food. I have only seen the Salvation Army feeding people and that was in Mississippi.

Right after the hurricane hit, I heard an ACOE guy being interviewed on TV. The levees were rated to withstand a Cat 3 storm. He was asked "Why did you not improve the levees to withstand a higher category storm?" His outrageous answer was that "the ACOE had done a cost-benefit analysis and decided it was not worth improving them at this time."

My husband and I both started screaming at this outrageous statement, but it is probably not far from the - disgusting - truth. The horror we are seeing today (the cost) could not compare with whatever Bush thought we would gain from the Irag business.

But that's the thing, not everyone is! You don't see people running out of stores loaded down with groceries, they have VCRs and TVs! What the heck are they going to do with this stuff when there is no electricity?!?

The fact is, extreme conditions like this either bring out the best or worst in man. I can easily understand a father reaking into a store to steal formula or cereal, and I would bet the police would have a more sympathetic bent, too. It's these idiots that are taking advantage of the chaos to rip off their fellow man for their hard-earned businesses that is unforgivable. AND the fact that they are willing to shoot each other instead of helping one another out (when they are all in the same position).

Children, elderly, and the sick come first - that's just the way it should be if people have any compassion.

I truly cannot find any way to understand this behavior. What is prompting some people to shoot at police and rescue workers? Can ANYONE offer an explanation for this behavior?

very naive and perplexed,
Nancy

Someon in Sri Langa was interviewed and stated "after the tsunami all of our people helped one another, poor and rich. In America they are shooting at one another. Now we know where civilization truly resides."

Unfortuantely this is true. I am saddned by the behavior of these people.

I wonder how you eat or drink boxes of sneakers.

Who was the HAM radio operator on the forum??? I was watching the news this morning and they're in need of HAM radio operators in that region to help out with the situation.

I think our resident HAM operator is Bob in Virginia.

Please also keep in mind that the news media is focusing on downtown NO and that is where the severest problems seem to have been in terms of looting, shooting, etc. There were close to a million (I think) people who evacuated before the storm from all the suburbs etc. of NO. There is also a huge area beyond NO that was impacted.

From what I have read in various blogs and emails, the majority of those people have lost everything, but they are already planning how they will carry on (they are not looting, shooting, waiting for the gov'ment). They are helping themselves and each other.

ALso, there is a TREMENDOUS grass roots effort swelling up to help everyone who needs help. People from neighboring states - churches, community groups, private homeowners etc.- are taking people in. I don't know if any will come to Massachusetts, but they might.

It is unfortunate that the media has focused on the bottom 5% of this tragedy (that's what they do - bottom 5% and top 5%, nothing else is newsworthy).

There is a lot of good out there.

What have you done to help?

Hussar. Ive been monitoring three frequencies at my station but right now what they need are people in the Louisana/Mississippi area with handheld/mobile V.H.F. FM radios to assist with rescue efforts. I gave my call sign to the Salvation Army net contoller and told him I would be standing by if there were any outgoing messages to the Tidewater area. I'll keep monitoring until the bands give out or I have to go babysitting for some of my grandchildren. The best thing to do is just listen and lend a hand when needed and right now it is the short range communications that is needed for the rescue efforts.

I should have included you too Nancy, sorry. They need people right now who will go into the affected areas to aid in the rescue efforts. Short range FM communications is what is needed now.

See, I knew Bob would already be doing what he could to help!

I saw a pretty bad video-clip today. It was from the NBC hurricane aid show that they put together with a bunch of celebrities and musicians and you have Kanye West (a rapper) standing with Mike Myers and they're doing the usual thing that's done. They ask for help and the such, but Kanye decides to mention the bottom 5% and says how there's not much help from the government and ends his talk on live TV with "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Yeah, so they sent Condi Rice out today, and boy was she all fired up!

Although there must be the same diversity among survivors of the hurricane devastation as in the general population, including thieves and people with mental health disorders, I think there must also be a crisis of faith for people who were told to wait in shelters and then no help came, not for the smallest baby or the oldest grandmother.

It seemed to surprise people in charge that there were thousands of survivors at the convention center, as if no one knew where the official shelters were, and no one there was watching tv. They seemed to have waited for an 'official' notification.

If you were left without shelter, water, food or clothing, and no help came, maybe you could load up a stolen vehicle with looted merchandise and drive your family to a place where the goods could be traded for basic necessities. Thieves would have then done a better job providing for traumatized and vulnerable family members than other survivors. I don't condone that type of behavior, but for those who were already operating with that mentality, it would have worked better than waiting for help.

It is clear now that something went wrong with coordination of information and rescue efforts. I saw interviews of police officers, medical staff and others on the front line. No food, water or supplies had been made available to *them* in the first days following the storm. Hospitals and emergency services should have been prioritized to receive water, food, and fuel for emergency power.

Medical teams in our area were ready to help out immediately but were not called in at the beginning of the crisis and others not until days afterward. I heard that the Red Cross was not being allowed in because people would refuse to evacuate if they had medical help, food and water. Doesn't the Geneva Convention assure that the Red Cross can go in where it's needed? Or is that just in war?

There are people all along the gulf coast, not just in New Orleans, who did not see relief workers in the first days after the devastation, and some who may not have seen help yet. See the email at the bottom of this web page - http://www.ndss.org/content.cfm?fuseaction=NDSS.article&article=1372

I don't wonder now about the failure to evacuate so many people before the storm hit. There is nowhere for them to go now that they are homeless - where would they have been evacuated to if they had resources, transportation, or government help to try to leave before the storm?

Thousands did go to shelters like the sports stadium in New Orleans to wait out the storm. It did not sound as if there were sufficient supplies brought in to support the number of people who sought shelter even before the flooding.

I remember feeling relieved as Katrina approached the coast to hear on the tv news that the storm had turned away from a direct hit on New Orleans, and for some reason thought the levies would hold up if New Orleans was not in Katrina's direct path.

It was the storm surge that destroyed so much of the gulf coast, and it must have been terrifying as the water rose and took down buildings and homes. The floods due to the levies failing were in addition to the storm damage and the storm surge.

Watching the coverage on television, I was so sad to hear people talk about not being able to afford to evacuate - one man saying that motels at $100 a night for ten days would be $1000 that they just didn't have, and most hotels raised their rates. Another elderly couple saying they had been moved out of their hotel room at gunpoint when they ran out of money. How many of them would have thought to bring along food and water when they had hotel rooms?

Stranded tourists talked about people loading their luggage on hotel provided buses and their own big cars instead of rescuing people. I think they believed like most of the rest of us that help would be coming right away for those who were left behind. The 18 year old who commandeered a school bus and drove the first batch of survivors to Houston arrived before the first official vehicles, too early for refuge to be available there. Those who arrived later lost their cots if they went outside the building to receive clothing and other donations provided by the people of Houston.

So many who did not evacuate said that they had to stay behind because they were caregivers for elderly, disabled, or very young family members.Those who rely on medical coupons are not usually allowed to receive services out of state, and the waivers so that 'refugees' could do so has only existed since disability advocates petitioned the government. Why was this not in the existing disaster relief plan?

There were many low income people left homeless in this catastrophe. How are communities where they have been received going to support them for the long term when community service budgets and resources for families were strained before the storm?

Thousands have been stranded and waiting for days, whose loved ones and neighbors have died and been left where they lay, whose babies are dehydrated and hungry, without shelter in the heat or comfort through the long dark night. I don't know how long I could hold on to hope in the situation so many people are living through right now. They can't know how desperately we have wanted them to be rescued.

Why did the people in charge not float barges down the river to bring supplies in to the people at the New Orleans convention center, and evacuate them on the return trips? Maybe there was no where to take them when they were rescued. Why did helicoptors not drop supplies near official shelters or wherever survivors were congregated? Why was there so little help so late for those in hospitals and clinics in the affected areas?

My son developed insulin dependent diabetes when he was seven. I have an emergency kit for him that we carry with us, one in the car, one in the house, and fought hard to have one at school. But I am thinking beyond that now. In a crisis situation, we had better have sturdy shoes to walk out of the devastated area, in case no one comes to help. After this many days, we should have been able to reach a place where we could get a drink of water, and someone would help us to bury our dead.

Pam W
SE of Seattle

Hurricane Katrina Disaster Relief - Children with Disabilities,
Health Issues or other Special Needs
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art35261.asp

Our survivor from New Orleans, Paul is safe:

Hello all, today is Monday, September 5, 2005. Just a quick update to let you know I am SAFE and staying in the Royal Orleans Omni Hotel with the other Officers.

I will contact you all with further details soon.

Warm Regards,
Paul

We took our son back to his dad's in Mississippi today. They will be starting school back tomorrow. They're part of the state was not badly hit at all, so did not take mush time to put back to rights. But we were watching all the convoys of military and medical vehicals pass us as we drove 59N into MS, and they took 59S into Louisiana.

I kept thinking about a picture of 40 school buses completely flooded. Why couldn't the system have let those w/out transportation use those 40 buses leave town and head towards Texas or even out here towards Georgia? Then those people would have been safe, the buses would not have been destroyed...seems like a logical answer to me. Why couldn't they have flown in a couple of military c150s. Heck those things caryy 3 tanks - you could fit LOTS of people in those. Chinooks, why not those things before hand. We've signed up to take in a family through SHAREYOURHOME.ORG, but that's about all we can do, it doesn't seem like enough. I keep watching Tv, and internet and trying to figure out what I can do, but feel so helpless. And just watch all our powers-that-be play the "blame game". <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'd like to express my heartful sympathy for all those directly (and indirectly) hit by the hurricane in the US, together with a word of solidarity (solidarnosc!).

From another forum:

What Went Wrong in New Orleans?
TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005
By Robert Tracinski

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicles, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

(Edit: John highlighted this for emphasis.)

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency--indeed; they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

"'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,� she said. �They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will."

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

John the Just. The article hit the nail on the head. The Welfare State, from cradle to grave. Nothing is to be expected.

That's horrifying! No wonder its a warzone down there. And the "shoot-to kill" orders make a lot more sense, too.

I love America, and I still think that there is much more good than bad here, but we are almost as bad with our "propaganda" as any communist state ever was- even with free media. Heck, they make it worse - they only report what's "SENSATIONAL"!

You should read some of the articles about people who volunteer in Houston to aid these people at the Astrodome or other places.

John,

interesting report but did not say everything. It was terrible that FEMA and its boss - Brown - did not do anything. I saw some interviews with this guy - he did not make any sense at all. He was saying as like he did not knwo what was going on a week after disaster happened.

Why nobody was giving this people food and water (when Brown was asked he said "good question")

Why for two days after the hurricane but when New Orleans was not yet flooded - they did not do anything with the people in the superdome??!!??

This guy - Brown and also many others are completely incomeptent, he was before some horce race management.

Now, FEMA is getting some 50 bln dollars - where these money would go?

In this article there is a mention of FoxNews. FoxNews only agenda was to show that these people in New Orleans are dangerous, uncivilized etc. But - maybe you would be more civilized if you'd get some water to drink, food to eat and bed to sleep.

This is really a distaste to watch how poor America is treated - not any better than Haiti.

It seems more and more that the USA is run in the same way as communistic Poland. People who support the current government or a current political agenda become leaders and directors - without any expertise whatsoever! <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

here is more about how incompetent people get their jobs:

Mr. Brown is incompetent but loyal, devoted to protecting the image of George W. Bush. Last week, Mr. Brown lied that FEMA had not known that levees around New Orleans could give way if a major hurricane struck.

Before he began working for the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Michael Brown spent a decade enforcing rules for the International Arabian Horse Association. And people wonder why FEMA did so poorly last year in Florida and last week on the Gulf Coast. Along with the rebuilding of that region must come the rebuilding of FEMA, and that must begin with the firing of Michael Brown.

How incompetent is Mr. Brown? Last Thursday, he said FEMA hadn't known that people were stranded at the New Orleans convention center, even though CNN had had the story on the air Wednesday. We know Mr. Bush doesn't read newspapers, but can't someone watch TV every now and then? This, though, is what happens when you put an unqualified political appointee into an important job and keep him there.

Mr. Brown got to FEMA not because he knew anything about disaster relief. He was a friend of Joe Allbaugh, who with Karl Rove and Karen Hughes formed the troika that ran President Bush's 2000 campaign. Mr. Bush put Mr. Allbaugh, who also had no relevant experience, in charge of FEMA, and Mr. Allbaugh hired Mr. Brown as general counsel. In March 2003, Mr. Allbaugh formed a consulting company to help clients "evaluate and take advantage of business opportunities in the Middle East following the conclusion of the U.S.-led war in Iraq." President Bush then let Mr. Brown start running FEMA.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/opinion/epaper/2005/09/07/a14a_brown_edit_0907.html

Just John,

Thanks for posting the article. It makes for interesting reading and it is nice to see another perspective. It is, however, full of holes of logic and makes some mighty leaps of faith to come to the conclusions it so ardently seeks.

Forgetting party politics in trying to assign blame for a moment, it is quite normal for the governor of a state to call out the State National Guard in times of emergency. It seems he did not do that for a rather long time. Now the president of the US can nationalize it and take control, but that is usually secondary or an action of the president must call in reinforcements of National Guard from surrounding states to get the right mix of machines and manpower to accomplish what must be done. Now we do have something of a problem with many of the Guard on duty in Iraq, but that can be worked out. Having military vehicles on scene is nothing new, they are built tough and are at hand and are great for rescue and transport under the worst of circumstances. I wish the Marines had some of their amphibious vehicles in New Orleans rather than in the desert dust. They might have given us quicker response capability in flooded areas.

The federal role is primarily through FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency. They are the trained and practiced agency that is to take charge and spend federal money to handle the emergency and coordinate the many agencies that become part of the rescue and recovery team. Now having a political lawyer as appointee of the head of FEMA is about the dumbest thing I can think of. You not only need a good manager with extraordinary nerves, but you need one who knows well how coordinate all of the resources at his command, and one who will listen to his commander in the field. If he will not give the Incident Commander in the field full rein, then he must take over the position and step up to the hot seat himself � but then with professionals that should rarely be necessary. Bush should fire the lawyer and make his next appointee a fully qualified individual. The nation needs nothing less.

Looting and shooting is nothing unusual in America. It has been around as long as people have been around, predating this nation by a few thousand years. Shooting looters is a great American tradition, and one that I hope continues strongly. We should give Darwin�s law every assist in sorting out this scum from our gene pool.

As for the rape and the pillage that the author so enthusiastically plays up, it is a normal part of our society. Perhaps foreigners are less surprised than he is that such things happen in America. In the foreign press they read continuously about crime and shooting in America, so it is easy to accept this lawlessness and shooting activity. There are times when I wish we had a larger part of the American population with juvenile delinquency records so they would not present sanctimonious lectures about only the undeserving being somewhat criminal. It seems to permeate our society at all levels, as demonstrated by some impeachable presidents and some money grubbing CEO�s.

The fellow seems to get lost between turning scum loose from prison and them picking on the scum of the earth and some or all of the two groups being part of the society of welfare recipients. If he will sleep any better, he can imagine most of the thousands of lost souls being former scum of the earth and the hurricane being God�s revenge upon America for sinning. I guess when reporters report they should differentiate between working poor and welfare poor. It would help if we branded a �W� into the foreheads of welfare recipients who are on the dole more than 4 years (to choose an arbitrary number. It is negotiable!)

Now to think of it, if I were working poor I would want to stay and protect my few but valuable worldly goods. If I were a welfare recipient, it would pay me to jump on the bus and skedaddle, leaving all that trash behind so I can collect new and fancy stuff.

Somehow I can�t buy into the author�s story, but it does provoke some thought!

Kai the Taxpayer

Ya, know (and I say this as someone who grew up on Welfare) I said this to my husband during the first few days.

Instead of making their situation better, people kept waiting for someone else to do it for them.

Blame, blame, blame flying all over the place. The Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor should have known such a disaster might occur and took no steps to prevent it. Clinton, his administration and the Democrats did nothing to insure that such a storm would have a minimum effect. CNN and the Palm Beach Post should have reported on this storm and flood four (4) weeks ago. Someone fail to wave "The Magic Wand" so all the bad things happened at once.

Bob,

blame Clinton on storm? I guess, Clinton is not in the office for 6 years. Besides, he did not have a congress on his side. Is CLinton so omnipotent that he is still guilty of what going on under Bush?

I guess, blaming Clinton on everything is going out of fashion.

Yes, local government is also guilty but what about this FEMA guy who had NO CLUE?

Honey, it's called "sarcasm." Bob S. made those comments about Clinton in a larger stream of nonsense. It's no more ridiculous to say it's Clinton's fault than Bush's.

Well......I could make a better case against Clinton. He was the president when the survey was done that the levies weren't strong enough.

But......I could also point to the city of NO. They spent federal money sent for the levies to refurbish a Mardi Gras fountain!!!!!!!

So......They were given money, but blew it one something stupid!

Paula,

if we lived in some kind of wilderness, the primitive society not paying any taxes etc - yes, I agree the government (state, federal) would not bear any responsibility for people. But this is XXI century?

OK, the next time, there would be the evacuation in the White House the government should not provide any security just let all the officiels go wherever they can find a shelter!

The trouble is - the top guys get everything but they still blame the bottom powerless for all the problems.
I just heard that the top 35 people of management in our university got raises about 10 thousands dollars each - whereas the professors had only 1-2% raise per year.

Why? Because they control money, yes, I agree pres. Cheney would not go to Wallmart and steal a couple of jeans but he would make sure that he would be compensated for his work in another ways...

By the way, you are doing a great job on your sites in Bella!

Don't get me started on universities. I live a football worshipping state. When they stop paying coaches obscene amounts of money I'll donate to the university. Until then I only support my college.

DC would be a slightly different matter. It is not a state and has a different relationship with the federal government.

for those americans on the forum who haven't become "stepford citizens" yet here's an excellent blog on the subject....

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

and a picture which sums up the attitude of your "president"....

[imageBellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

Marsh,
welcome to the forum. of course we cannot blame Bush on... hurricane but we can blame on Iraq since there was no reason to go there.

As for the fountain - is this Foxnews story?

And the alphabet news networks make up stories if there is nothing available. LOL

I think someone on here already pointed out, although the gov't couldn't seem to get in there to help people, the reporters sure were in there. Why, for one bleedin' second, could they not have put their cameras and microphones down, and actually lent a hand to helping some of these people?

No, instead they just film them being miserable and crying and being murdered and bleeding on the streets! I believe in order to be part of mainstream media (or as Bob puts it "alphabet news networks" - i like that one!) all reporters must give up their souls, humanity and compassion, and every now and then they have make-up paint it back on so they can look sympathetic on camera!

Everybody made fun of Sean Penn - at least he tried!

it's amazing really....

katrina wasn't exactly the first hurricane to strike america was it?

and the fact that it was going to strike was known in advance wasn't it?

so wouldn't it have been a good idea to prepare for the disaster and mobilise help immediately?

it's not rocket science is it?

that's exactly what happened last year when a hurricane struck florida.

so....

....why didn't it happen this time?

why did it take a whole week before anybody showed up?

and who's fault is that?

Visit this photo album of New Orleans. It's pretty good and the story with it is also.


http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.js...nyvoby&Ux=1

John,

Thanks for posting that link. Quite an amazing photo-essay by someone who lived through each moment. Brings home the fact that the breached levee caused more damage than the storm itself (and who to we have to "thank" for that??).

Lots of comments about the media too, like: the "wench from MSNBC" who made up 75% of what she said! (but without the nastiness of the blogger that Raytan posted earlier)

Nancy