BellaOnline Forums Travel and Culture Polish Culture Ukrainian orphans

Eric,

I understand that these countries do not want to lose their citizens, people from their blood etc. But - what citizens these children would grow to if... there is no good care given to them?

It reminds me the analogy with a dog who would not eat his own bone but he would not give it to... the other dog also!

hahaha Jaga, you mean orchard's dog? the one that won't let you have an apple and wouldn't eat apples <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

yes, the analogy is even closer - orchant (orphan) dog....

The woman who posted the original note in Bella included a link to this website.

http://deti.zp.ua/eng/

So it seems they are trying to take care of the orphans, but need support. There is a forum on that website, but not much participation.

If the society as a whole agrees that the children should remain in the country where they are born, then they should do everything in their power to provide good care and education for these children. If they cannot make those provisions then they should allow what is in the best interests of the child.

I understand Eric's point, however I think that the individual child should not be sacrificed in the name of some "higher" need of society.

And who is it that is deciding what that higher need is? Government? We have all seen what happens when government interferes in private lives, some of us more than others, and I would venture to say that none of us likes what happens.

I was trying to find an article about Ukranian orphans that Pieter (Redhead) told us about a few months ago. I didn't find it but did come across some other distrubing information.

First, there is an article http://www.wumag.kiev.ua/index2.php?param=pgs20031/90

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Ice-Cream Leftovers versus Love and Care

Last summer I happened to watch a scene which profoundly saddened me � a barefoot grimy ragamuffin of no more than ten years of age scooped ice cream leftovers with his dirty hand from the bottom of a huge saucepan. The kind-hearted cook from the nearby cafe took the shiny saucepan from the boy when he had finished and promised the boy that he could come the next day � �There will be some more for you.� And then she added heaving a sigh: �Poor thing, life must be pretty hard for you, kids, in your orphanage. Otherwise you would not keep running away from it, would you?�

There was indeed a shelter for homeless children situated in the immediate vicinity. .........

Three basic reasons are generally given to explain the Ukrainian state�s great reluctance to allow more adoptions by foreigners: it is wrong to have �our� Ukrainian children taken out of Ukraine; secondly, it is not known what will happen with adopted children afterwards � what if they are used for some sinister purposes?; and thirdly � if there are too many foreigners adopting Ukrainian children, there will not be enough children left for adoption by �our� Ukrainian families.

They are all very wrong reasons with nothing to substantiate them.

�Our� is an absolutely wrong adjective to use � orphaned children are not the state-owned property and they do not have any �responsibilities� before the state. It is the state that has to provide a more or less decent living conditions for them � and if it cannot why not let others do it? It is the well being of the children that should be the primary � in fact the only � consideration. It is the fate of thousands upon thousands of children remaining to lead miserable lives in internats and orphanages that should be of a concern for the state � not the wrongly interpreted considerations of �prestige� and of �what people would say.�

Secondly, �what happens with the child after it is adopted by a foreign family� is closely monitored by several state bodies, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs included � much more closely in fact than the life of the children adopted by Ukrainian families.


Thirdly, the number of children who can be adopted is many times over the number of requests for adoption coming from the Ukrainian families; besides, most of the children who are adopted by foreigners would have practically no chance of being adopted by Ukrainian families because of their age, ancestry and health. Permissions for adoption by foreigners are given only after no Ukrainian adopters have been found within a specified period of time.

There is a definite and urgent need to have the policies which are currently pursued by the state in adoption of children reviewed and changed � for the benefit of the children."

Even worse.....

Target: Orphans

No doubt one of the most appalling aspects of the trade is the targeting of orphans throughout Eastern Europe. In March, 2003, for example, the U.S. State Department reported a "pattern of trafficking" involving orphans in Moldova. According to the Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, the girls at risk are those who "must leave orphanages when they graduate," usually at sixteen or seventeen. Most have no source of funds for living expenses or any education or training to get a job. Traffickers often know precisely when these girls are to be turned out of the institutions ("some orphanage directors sold information . . . to traffickers") and are waiting for them, job offers in hand. The State Department also notes that throughout Russia, there are "reports of children being kidnapped or purchased from . . . orphanages for sexual abuse and child pornography" and that child prostitution is "widespread" in orphanages in Ukraine. And in Romania, "many orphanages are complicit in letting girls fall victim to trafficking networks."

Vast armies of Russian children who have run away from brutal orphanages wander the streets of Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Excerpt from The Natashas.
The Natashas - The New Global Sex Trade Book By Victor Malarek
Published by Viking Canada, 304 pages, $36

Amazon link

It is certainly the responsibility of the governments to provide adequate care for the orphans. Unfortunately, not a single former socialist country today is doing so. In the past, they were able to, but not now. The main reason is corruption. Those in charge of the money can not dream of "wasting" it on orphans when they are themselves interested in buying a new car or a new dacha.

In the entire post-socialist area, education, health care, and social services in general are running on virtually a zero budget, and unfortunately, there is not anyone able to end the corruption that keeps it this way.

As far as Poland is concerned, and as I see it, it is the responsibility of us, the citizens of Poland, to provide adequate care for the orphans. We now succeed to do so in most of the cases through the actions of the authorities that we chose and by the independent NGO's. It was not so in the past, while Poland was dependent in the Soviet Russia bloc. The Russians have tried to introduce a strange way of treating children children as a workforce to support the country in the future, not the human, individual beings. I think it was one of the major reasons why they never really succeeded in subjugating Poland - here the well-being of the individual human was and is alwaus more important than the welfare of the sociaty.
In the communist times the orphanages were run with almost no money since the economy was a non-profit one and the MOscow-backed governement supported military and economically other 'communist' states, like Cuba, Vietnam, not to mention the Soviet Russia itself. During that dark times even the adoptions were very rare as they weren't propagated by trhe governement and non-goverment-organizxations (NGO's) which were non-existent and prohibited. In contrast to the abortion and corruption which were paramount, flourishing.

Luckily these gloomy inhuman times are over. The children and the orpahans are treated as they should. THe defections form this rule occur, but they are what they are - the defections from the rule, snatched, condemned and prosecuted if law was broken.

Adam - not about orphans but about Polish attitudes. You stated:
"I think it was one of the major reasons why they never really succeeded in subjugating Poland - here the well-being of the individual human was and is always more important than the welfare of the society."
Adam you state the above and I am sure that 90% of the Polish people are so, but I know two who are far from it! The main one is Szelakowski, the Preses of Coaching and Training Institute, Warszawa. In May and September 2004 I spoke at Conferences, Seminars and training workshops for him, for which he owed me 2,000 GBP. It is now the middle of June 2005 and he still owes me 1406GBP!! He is a LIAR -when I asked for my money on 10 01 2005 he promised to pay the debt off in instalments by the end of February - see above. He is a CHEAT - he is not paying me money owed to me and will be earning interest on my money. He is an AVOIDER - he fails to reply to my emails and text messages to him. He is a CHEAPSKATE - he sent me three instalments of 100 gbp each, then on 15 April 2005 294GBP - nothing since!! He is a USELESS BUSINESSMAN - He stated some time ago that the reason why he couldn't pay me the money was because he had none in the bank - perhaps my money went on his three weeks' holiday in Thailand with his wife (who is a senior Cabin crewmember with LOT) and daughter.
So you see Adam that he and his partner/colleague do not fall into your global categoty of good guys.
Leslie

Y'know, Leslie, I think your story is actually an example of the individual-is-more-important-than-the-society, but in a negative way. Szelakowski is clearly putting his individual interests ahead of anything else, and probably negatively impacting Polish society as a result, in ways he cannot even imagine.