BellaOnline Forums Home and Garden Fish Huh?

BG,
I agree with Emg about fresh water and aquarium salt. It really makes a difference for these guys. They are very sensitive to change so try to keep the environment as close to the same as you can. The gravel can shred fins, so the smooth stones or glass work great.
Nan

I almost got him new gravel tonight, but really was not happy with the stuff they had. He is getting a water change tomorrow and he will be loosing his gravel nad his cave for a couple of days. The guy at the fish store thinks there might be a bacteria or something in the water, and he said it could be coming from the gravel or the cave. I am just so worried about him, he isn't happy! <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (If anyone gets a chance, read my thread "I was so mad...!")

Aquarium salt and clean water. Best thing you can do. Don't worry about gravel or the cave or anything else at this point, just keep his water clean with frequent water changes and a little bit of aquarium salt. I'd leave the cave in so that he feels more at home if you remove the gravel.

Out of curiosity, why are you going to remove the gravel? If you are planning on putting more in, the bacteria would just hide in the new gravel, and it wouldn't really solve anything. Removing the gravel will make the tank easier to clean since you should change it every few days if he is sick, but other than being a pain to clean, it is probably all right.

I would take the gravel out until the fin issue is cleared up...just to eliminate one possible cause for the shredded fins. While he's healing up you could be looking for some smooth stones or those flat glass marbles to put in there after his fins are better.

BG...don't put any 'cycle' in his tank...just the aquarium salt and stress coat. Cycle is something you use to jump start the cycling process...I don't think it has anything to do with 'conditioning' the water or removing chlorine and chloromines.

Be sure to pick up something that eliminates the chlorine and chloromines from the water...if it just says "stress coat" than it probably doesn't 'condition' the water.

Sorry Bettagirl, and thanks for correcting me Emg... I meant conditioner/stress coat in my previous post, not cycle. I don't use cycle either. Maybe I should keep my two cents worth to myself lol. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

NO ! Not at all Fishwife !! LOL ! We each of us learn from each other. What works best for one may not work for someone else. The more we share with each other our experiences, the more we each learn...mistakes and all ! So, please FishWife...lol...do NOT keep your 2 Cents to yourself ! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey Fishwife,
I prefer open discussion myself. Sometimes I've learned from boo boos I've talked about. The folks here are very kind and supportive -- I haven't seen any flames, and it's a great place to be to talk about our owners -- I mean pet fish.
Nan

Hi folks,

I've spent a lot of time trying to cure fin rot, and figuring out why it happened in the first place, and would like to share some of what I've learned.

Fin rot, like many other ailments, is most often a product of stress. Fin rot in particular is usually not highly contagious. The problem is not bacteria in the water/gravel. Fish, like people, co-exist with all sorts of potentially harmful bacteria and fungi. Like people, fish they become susceptible to infection when they get immunodepressed due to stress. So I would look to eliminate potential sources of stress rather than try to eliminate bacteria, which is basically impossible to do without eliminating the fish too!

BG, have you tested the pH of Pig's water? You mention that you have cichlids, which usually like high pH, and municipal water is often fairly to highly alkaline. But Bettas, like most other freshwater fish, evolved in slightly acidic water (6.5 to 6.8). Humans too-- think about how it feels when you splash water in your eyes in the shower-- now imagine how your fish might feel living in such an environment all the time! Many fish (and Bettas in particular) can adapt to higher pH environments, but it is still stressful for them.

If your pH is between 6.2 and 7.4, you're probably best off leaving well enough alone, but if you're at the ends of that range then you're more likely to have problems. If you're outside that range, you might think about modifying the pH. There are a number of ways to do this without resorting to chemical products, which often don't work as expected (as my aquatic friends and I have learned very painfully). Always make changes _very_ slowly. If you are changing the pH by 1 degree or less, do it over a period of hours. If you are changing it by more, think in terms of days.

Also think about a heater and a filter. Bettas can do ok w/o water circulation, but that's mainly because they don't need as much O2 from water b/c they also breathe air. They will be much happier in a filtered tank and a temp of 75-80 degrees. All those water changes do take the ammonia out, but at the cost of a stable environment. Same goes for heating-- Pig can thrive at a variety of temperatures, but daily temperature swings also add stress.

IMO, that Cycle stuff is basically useless. It's not live bacteria. It probably contains something that can encourage the nitrifying bacteria to grow-- which won't happen anyway because you have to keep doing frequent, massive water changes due to lack of filtration/circulation. From what I've seen/read/heard, the only product that works is Bio-Spira, this is a refrigerated live culture. It's hard to find and expensive, so it's not something you'll want to use on a regular basis. I've used it to bypass the usual month-long new tank cycling process and it works like a charm.

Some experienced aquarists tell me that aquarium salt is not very helpful. Correcting environmental issues is essential but, in my experience, unlikely to cure an established case of fin rot without medication. Bettafix, Melafix, Pimafix and other herbal remedies may work for milder cases, and are reportedly helpful to prevent recurrence, but are less likely to work on a bad case. Even antibiotics sometimes do not work because of widespread resistance due to overuse. Keep in mind that the fin rot can actually be either bacterial or fungal. It's often impossible to tell which. I've heard Jungle Fungus Eliminator works, haven't tried it though. I've had some luck with Kanamycin, an antibiotic. You may need to treat for 2 or 3 weeks, as fin rot can be hard to cure. Maybe don't use "stress coat" or "slime coat" type products while you're treating, as this can actually be a barrier between the bacteria and the medication.

Hope this helps!

Bettas are kept in a different way to the way most tropical fishes are kept in captivity. For instance, 82 degrees F is ideal water temp. for bettas, but most people keeping bettas in vases keep them at room temperature, and they seem to do fine for a while though most people do not keep their homes at 82 degrees. (Not me anyway, I'd croak!)
The size of the containers used in shops are not conducive to long-term health, as there is no filtration, nor nitrifying bacteria to deal with ammonia and nitrite build-up. This means that daily water changes are indicated.
Bettas are from areas with soft, acidic water conditions, i.e., Southeast Asia---usually in rice paddies, puddles, small bodies of water, but no salt. Yet, people use salt in the water for medicinal purposes. The salt should only be used when there is some bacterial infection at work, not on a constant basis.
Granted, virtually none of the bettas we find in the shops have ever even smelled the water of their ancestors, but still, they will do best when kept as nature intended. When I check the magazines and fish books, even online resources, all indications lead to the conclusion that a single male betta is max per tank unless spawning is the goal, and there are definite rules for how to approach the introduction of a male and female betta. One can't just dump them into the container and let nature do her thing. Male bettas are very possessive of the eggs they have fertilized.<G> The female must be removed post haste after spawning, or he will treat her like another male betta. Sad, but true.
Bettas are among the most hardy of all the tropical fishes. They forgive humans so many well-intentioned errors, but to be kind: if your fish is being kept alone in a small vessel, change water daily with room-temperature water if that is what you're keeping him in. It's very easy to keep a jug of water that was filled the day before for today's water change. Remove just that much water from his container and refill with the aged water. If you have aged the water, you don't need additives (unless there is chloramine in the water, in which case, you will need some drops to remove this poisonous substance.)
Caves and other porous decorations are not indicated for a betta home. They will help dirt to hide and bacteria to proliferate. What would be nice would be a bit of Cabomba or other hardy live plant to help remove ammonia and add a little greenery to the diet. Bettas would find a bit of salad available on demand a very nice touch in the house. There's no need to overdo it. Actually, I'm quite fond of duckweed at the top of the betta home. It looks lovely when he's making a bubblenest and he likes to have an anchor for his precious, but alas, not to be enjoyed, bubbles.
There's a lot that time and space force me to leave out here, but what I'm trying to impress---and to be fair, the information is already all here on this forum---is that if you keep your bettas simply and as nature designed, they will be happy and long-lived fish. And if you possibly can, do not overfeed them!
Best fishes,
Mary Ellen Sweeney

I will have to pick up a test kit tomorrow, I never even thought of that, thanks! I don't have the cichlids yet, by mid-march I will have them. I feel so terrible that I just have not had the time to do a complete water change yet. I don't get home until late at night, and my family is asleep by then, but I have off tomorrow, so I will do it then. I finally picked up more stress coat, and the guy said the white stuff could be a fungus, so he recommnded Liqiud Fungus Cure, which I got. I cannot wait to get him out of this [censored] water he is in and into nice clean water. He is not getting his gravel or cave back, he'll get new ones soon. If he sulks that's fine, I'd rather have him sulk than get really sick. He is going to get new gravel, a cave, plants (I think I may get real ones. It's okay if he snacks on them, right? I don't mind <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )