BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality New Age Monthly AstroTarot Forecasts

Hi Janet and Mary <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> This is a great discussion. I realized after I'd posted last that I hadn't said anything about what I think of divination... lol... and there's Janet, beating me to it. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree, divination is a waste of time. As Janet says, it is a shallow endeavor. Good way to put it. When such tools are used to "control" something, the querent is asking someone else to take resposnibility for them, to do it "for" them. That's why it's such a waste of time. Ya can't squeeze blood out of a turnip, lol... ya just can't make someone do something they don't wanna... yeah, they definitely want a quick fix, and that means they don't want to do the work. When you ask someone to "divine" for you, you are essentially giving your power of choice away.

That's why it's so hard to educate people about what tarot, or any other tool, is really all about, why there's so much "superstition" attached to it. These people think "everything" is written in blood upon stones, that it's "fatefull"... rather than a destiny that they need to align with. It's really mind-boggling to me how society today can think that way... but that gets me into a discussion on what Christianity has done to current "thought" and what is acceptabe... how the Church has taught us that we can't think for ourselves... and I get really confused with that, as it's in direct conflict with the constitution (for those of us in the U.S. anyway), but still, it's in direct conflict with human rights in general too, the idea that something "should" or "must"... "determine my fate" rather than point me toward options and choices in my destiny.

That's why I am so interested in using tarot and other tools as an art therapist, in a setting where the person does a "reading" themselves (although I probably wouldn't even call it that), but with support and guidance from someone (hopefully me, lol) who has a good grasp of it, if I can ever get there. Still have to go to school for it... it may be two or more years yet before I can do that, with all the bills the way they are. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But I AM working on that financial issue, and am finally seeing some progress. I am, however, doing as much studying of tarot itself as I can, so that I will have that part "ready", already, lol. I want to be a part of that growing awareness of empowerment, to let the world know they can and do have the power to choice, if they so choose. I wouldn't really like doing readings myself, in the way of "freelance" just for the reading itself, for the very reasons Janet already expressed frustration and irritation at. Self-mastery is just so much more desirable.

Guess it's time to consider the next step, eh Janet... that ergonomic chair thing... those are really cool! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Wish I could get one myself, however, I do have a kitchen table chair that is rather worthy of itself at the moment, so I can't complain. My biggest problem right now is the mattress. When the significant other finally was able to move here, he brought a pillow-top mattress... and I can't really abide by it, so I have to be really careful in how I sleep in it, which makes me not sleep well. :rolleyes: Someday, I'll get it right, lol...

'llysa

Hi Folks!

Janet, I tend to read this forum early in the morning - or late at night - so I may be a little fuzzy sometimes! :-) But I'm trying to figure out if I "read" you right (okay, pun intended!) - You were saying that divination as just "telling the future" is "not only a waste, but a very shallow endeavor" - right? But I don't think you were including ALL divination in that?

So, my question to you, as an experienced reader, is: do you feel that divining - as opposed to "telling the future" - for someone else can be a useful tool for both you and the querent?

On an interesting note, I'm also "into" genealogical research, and coming up against some very frustrating brick walls (which I hope eventually to climb over, under, around or through). A while back I tried doing some readings to tell me about the ancestors who are proving difficult to find.

It might be easier to understand if I give a little very basic history. My husband's grandmother was born in Manville RI - very much a New England mill town - of French-Canadian parents. The family story is that her mother had diabetes, lost her legs, and wound up in a sanitarium, at which point Ida (his grandmother) ended up living with relatives.

My husband remembered from his childhood two aunts, Malvina and Ada. When I finally found the family I found that there were at least three more (older) children. One of those married, had children, and lived in this general vicinity until well into my husband's life - so why didn't he know about her?

One married, and then we lose track of him completely. The other we lose early on. David's grandmother changed her first name after a failed marriage at age 16 (an arranged marriage). A surprise to us was that her father is listed as dead, and her mother as living in Canada at the time of that marriage.

And the mysteries go on and on... but I won't bore you with them! It has become a slight obsession to me to "find" Ida's parents and her siblings. I think it's horribly sad that our cemeteries are full of people no one ever remembers or visits because we've become such a mobile society.

Anyway, I came up with a spread to let me get to know Ida's parents (and Ida and her husband, for that matter - he was murdered in 1933 in a robbery so David never knew him at all). My reason was pretty basic. When you're doing genealogical research, sometimes it helps to get to "know" the person you're seeking. A feel for who they are can cause flashes of insight about where to look for clues.

Anyway, it was a very simple spread - The first card to "tell" me about the person generally. The second focusing on their early years, the third on their middle years, and the fourth on their later years. If I felt it necessary, I'd draw another to clarify who they really were.

The results were pretty amazing, and more so when I learned further things about the people involved. For instance, Ida was characterized generally as the Queen of Pumpkins (I use the Halloween Tarot, and Pumpkins is the counterpart of Pentacles), whereas her husband Joseph was only the King of Pumpkins in his middle years.

When I learned more about their lives, and family relationships (or lack thereof), this made a great deal of sense. Joe had struck out on his own because of some family differences, and only in his middle years was he seen as the good provider. He left his early work to go back in to the family career of baking bread (but not WITH his family), which meant that he always found work - even during the depression.

However, it was Ida who kept the family together while he traveled - and lived - wherever he had to in order to earn a living. And, after he died, she worked and kept the family going.

It was an interesting experience, and there are some indications that my readings for Ida's parents was probably pretty accurate too. But my main reason for doing the readings was to get a feel for who I was seeking.

I wondered what you (all of you) think of this type of reading. And don't hold your punches! :-) I'm genuinely interested in your opinions!

Thanks!
Mary

Hi Mary!

You wrote:

As one who writes a lot about divination, and reads for others, I surely don't think divination is a waste! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> What I meant by that is those individuals who continually consults readers or psychics wanting to know things like "Will I die?", "Will my health be OK?", "Does he really love me?", etc.

The reason I have problems with these kind of readings is:

1. The future is fluid, and not fixed
2. As individuals, and their patterns, beliefs, attitudes and actions change, so does their future
3. All of life is a lesson, and difficulties can serve as a great teacher. If one is looking to somehow circumvent or "get out of" difficulties--especially without ruthless self-examination or committment to their spiritual path--it's a "shallow endeavor". It's like trying to get rid of a dandelion by simply mowing it down, rather than extricating it at the root.

Now, I must say, I am clouded by my own experience. Back when I was involved in the Pentcostal and Charismatic movements in Christianity (both as a pastor and a lay person), I put a lot of eggs in the "future" basket, myself. Instead of taking responsibility for my own life, I wanted rescued, pampered, provided for, and so on. I was in for a huge rude awakening by life--which included the illness and death of my first husband.

It was then that I concluded that it's a major cause of suffering to be so future-focused, and to think the Divine is a deus ex machina ready to snatch us out of difficulty...or give us a smooth ride in life. This is why I'm not big on the New Age movement of "prosperity and abudance", because a lot of that seeks a life of ease...and, like many in the Charismatic movement, they don't seek to "weep those who weep" (have compassion), but rather want to slap on a little affirmation like some cosmic bandaid (effectively dismissing, or ignoring, the sufferer).

This is just some of the reasons I think the way I do. Does that make sense?

Btw, that's an interesting way to find out about geneology! Since we're all connected, seems like a neat way to fill in the missing gaps of research. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi Janet!

It's so good to have you back again! I hope you're feeling better.

It all makes perfect sense to me, and I thought that that was basically what you were saying about divination.

I've found, after having been raised a Catholic, that it's hard to change the mindset over. I know that I need to "think" more, be more in the moment and aware. Otherwise, among other things, I fall back into acting as if I still believe in "let go, and let god," rather than taking full responsibility for my own actions, on a spiritual level.

I know some of what I believe, and I'm learning more every day, but sometimes find it hard to put it into my life. That was one of the things that drew me back to Tarot. Contemplation with Tarot cards has made me stop and think about some of this a bit more.

BTW, in case you've never read Sylvan's The Circle Within, she refers to the kind of wake-up call you describe (and I certainly don't mean that as a flip reference to the tragedy you experienced, but it sounds like it was definitely a call to do what you are doing now) as a "cosmic two-by-four" or "the psychic equivalent of being hit from behind by a balloon full of gravel." I like the imagery of that. And I think that most of us all too often ignore the more gentle reminders, like those received in divination.

And, yes, using Tarot in genealogy has been interesting. How accurate I've been, I don't completely know yet, but even if it just helped me put into words what I already knew as fact, it was helpful.

My husband has me using a pendulum now. The last time we were at our favorite "rock" store in Uxbridge - a little bit of everything, and she doesn't favor the term New Age, but that's what most would call it - he bought himself a book and a pendulum. I wasn't having much response with anything I used, until I tried one of my collection of Figas (odd the things we collect, isn't it?). This one is amethyst, and for whatever reason, it just "jumps" to reply to my questions.

I've been asking it about some health issues that have come up, and how they affect my family (my problem can run in families, and I've told my sisters that they should be tested too). It will be interesting to see how accurate I've been with it.

Gotta go feed dogs (or I'll be in VERY big trouble with them!). :-)

Again, it's good to have you back!
Mary

Thank you so much, Mary! *hugs* The Circle Within...isn't that a Wiccan book, though?

Tarot, and other oracle cards, certainly have helped me to stop and focus as well. *nodding* How's that amethyst being working for you? Has it been accurate? Still jumping? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi all,

Better late than never *drumroll*:

[b]AstroTarot Forecast - February 2005
Forecast

WOW look at this new message board thingy... I didn't know Bella had changed it, as I've been gone a while obviously, lol... it'll take some getting used to I can see, lol!

Janet, it's good to see you're doing better. I think of you every day in my reverence time.

Wanted to share with you what I think of the Astroforecasts as it relates to myself for this month... I am a Leo with a Cusp of Virgo, lol... and yes, "Holy COW"!!! Have been gone for a reason. Lost some income of my own, my second part-time job suddenly ended due to the needs of the store... and my partner lost his sole source of income very suddenly (we were not warned with any "time" in advance at all), and then, we started having banking problems because of it. I've been scrambling around trying to find solutions to this, and have not had much time to get online...

So yes, The Tower definitely "hit" already. It's time for me to change many things, and I've been resisting for too long. I did start heeding the messages being sent a few months back, but I was trying to take it slowly and make the changes gradually and "safely", lol...

The "good" part about all this chaos? I now have the free time I've been complaining I don't have to actually make those changes manifest, lol. So, yes, fortune smiled upon me, although I don't feel like it at the moment, lol... I have been given some opportunities to sell my craftwork, and there are some possibilities opening up in my life just because of the chaos that would not otherwise be available. Now I have the time to slow down and actually take care of my health as well...

Interesting, these Astroforecasts, Janet. They've never been wrong on me yet! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

'llysa

Yeah, this blue board is a bit much on the eyes... I'm used to the subdued colors of the other board!

I so much appreciate you thinking of me in your daily reverence time, 'lyssa. I know that the prayers and well wishes from those like yourself has contributed to my recovery. (Or, at the very least, my sanity! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Wow, I'm sorry to hear of the challenges you've been experiencing...but it looks like you're looling for the gift among the debris, and finding some jewels in the process! They say "be careful what you wish for", because, truly, the Universe often answers our deepest desires...and often not in the way we want or expect! This is the nature of change (which rarely comes gradually, gently or safely! LOL).

But you know, the alchemical path is full of change. It must be. It's the only way for the lead to be transmuted into gold, ya know? I really feel some great things are in store for you, 'lyssa. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad the AstroTarot Forecasts prove so accurate for you. I get blown away from the feedback on the accuracy, to tell you the truth. The Quest deck has just proven to be amazingly accurate with readings; I guess it goes to show that it's true what's often said: you don't choose the deck...the deck chooses you!

Blessings to you, 'lyssa, and all the best on your craftwork! What kind of crafts will you be doing? And please, keep us posted on your journey. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by Janet Boyer, Editor

Post deleted by Janet Boyer, Editor

Post deleted by Janet Boyer, Editor