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Re: The Holy Bible #144533 07/19/06 05:49 AM
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freebubbles2 Offline
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Why do you not believe that Jesus is Gods son?


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: The Holy Bible #144534 07/19/06 05:55 AM
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freebubbles2 Offline
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Or do you believe Jesus is Gods son? ok im confused. you dont agree with what chirstians believe so what do you believe? and please dont say your religion is Muslin because that doesnot tell me anything!!! just explain what you believe like you would lets say a jr high class of chirstians!!! ok? lol start from the begining and where you start to disagree with our bible. I know that muslins believe some part of the bible or so i thought... confused!!


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: The Holy Bible #144535 07/19/06 10:52 AM
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kibrisli7 Offline
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fair enough that is the best way.

I believe Jesus was a prophet and only a prophet. I do not believe he died and was resurected.
He may have been crucified but never died in the process.
He survived and was than raised to heaven by God.
He resides in heaven untill the time is right for God to send our mighty prophet back to us.

Understand?
Islam teaches that God sent many prophets to earth.
Each prophet was sent at a time the people had deviated away from the religion of monotheism (Which means to believe only in 1 God)

We can see this in the bible. Each prophet in the bible had to deal with his people who were in some way corrupt from the will of God.
Jesus came to re introduce the laws of Moses fully to Israel.
He never came to die for peoples sins.
The idea of him being the son of God was first introduced in the scriptures of Paul, as was the idea of a trinity amd the resurection. None of this came from Jesus' mouth.

People will often quote jesus saying. There is 3 in heaven that bear witniss.... This line does not exist in any bible written in the Greek language before the 15 century!


"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Re: The Holy Bible #144536 07/19/06 06:17 PM
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E
emaster101 Offline
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That's funny but Jesus spoke repeatedly that He did in fact come to die for the sins of many. He did die, the Bible says so and He was resurrected as He said so. He was called the son of God by His Apostles. When He stopped the raging sea His Apostles fell to His feet and said, "Truly you are the son of God." Jesus Himself said He would die and be resurrected on the third day. He said all that before He was crucified. You are ignoring huge parts of the Bible if you cannot see this. Have you actually read the Bible or are you getting this second hand?

Last edited by emaster101; 07/19/06 06:19 PM.
Re: The Holy Bible #144537 07/19/06 10:56 PM
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kibrisli7 Offline
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Why is it you never give examples so we the people can see emaster?
Why didnt you answer the post I gave above when you asked me to show you even one contradiction?

heres another one for you in answer to your last post:

Quote:
His Apostles fell to His feet and said, "Truly you are the son of God."


Did they really emaster?

When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond?
(a) They worshipped him, saying, �Truly you are the Son of God� (Matthew 14:33)
(b) �They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were
hardened� (Mark 6:51-52)

You cannot keep telling us Jesus (pBUH) said this and that firstly without evidence and secondly without verifying your evidence as being authentic.

try answering the 10 contradictions I set you and ill give you some more. Theres bound to be a good explanation.
Spread the good news young sir! <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

There is only one divine scripture in the world. And without fail it is the Noble Quran. A book people have not been able to find errors in.
instead of saying that there must be... show me!


"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Re: The Holy Bible #144538 07/21/06 03:33 AM
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Carennedy Offline
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The reason no one finds errors in it is because no one who isn't a muslim and reads aramic has ever read the Quran. The Bible being much more accessable has been picked apart by those who want to disprove Christianity.

But the only things they have to pick at are tiny little details as your 10 points list showed.

Plus I'm not about to say anything bad about it. Who was that writer that wrote something negative about the quran and is now in hiding for his life?

Did you know that there are 39 non biblical ancient sources that document the life of Jesus that have more than 100 reported facts concerning Jesus' life, teachings, crucifixion and resurrection. Twenty four of these non biblical ancient sources cite the divinity of Jesus.

by the way if you want literary proof about this read The Verdict of History by Gary Habermas.

Last edited by Carennedy; 07/21/06 03:37 AM.
Re: The Holy Bible #144539 07/21/06 03:41 AM
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Carennedy Offline
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Here are some other sources for non biblical proof of Jesus & his divinity.

Books:
Jesus and Christina Origins outside the New Testement
The Historical Jesus
He Walked Amoung Us.

If you want a really good look at who Jesus really was read Philip Yancey's book - The Jesus I never Knew. It will open your eyes to what life was like then and how Jesus really looked to those of the time. It gave me a fuller knowledge of who Jesus really was and is.

Re: The Holy Bible #144540 07/21/06 03:59 AM
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Carennedy Offline
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Quote:
From K7 at the beginning of this forum: You see we believe (As do all Christians) that the bible has been tampered with. This is fact. Your priests admit it, your pope probably admits it and there is no grounds to defend it. Infact in History we actually know who some of the re-writers of the bible are. And these are historians that are Christian.


I can't get very far without reading a lie and having to respond with Truth. If this has already been answered please bear with me.

As for my priest... I don't have one. My minister decided to answer this question when Dan Brown decided to write a novel about it. In looking into history we find the following:

There are 5000 ancient manuscripts of the Gospels. There are thousands of fragments of the Gospels. These were found from Eygpt to Rome. The oldest one dates 55 years from the original. When compared they match 98.5% - the other 1.5% are grammerical or spelling differences, Not Doctrine.

Our Bible has not been messed with.

Want more proof there are 39 non biblical sources that tell the story about Jesus and have 100 instances of his life, miricles, death AND reserection.

The fact that he died on the cross is not disputed by ancient historians. We have more proof in ancient documents that Jesus lived and died then we do that Ceaser Augustus lived.

Re: The Holy Bible #144541 07/21/06 04:07 AM
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Carennedy Offline
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I am not staying up until midnight again to disprove everything K7 says about the Bible and Jesus..... but he is wrong and there is proof in the Bible and outside it.

If you really want the truth, the real truth and not K7's misguided rantings, which are not all truth.

Read the following:

The Bible -- The New Living Translation is a great contemporary translation that will be easy for you to read and understand.

Writers:

C. S. Lewis
Philip Yancey
Lee Strobel

If you really want to know the truth about God and are not just looking for an excuse to get yourself off the hook sorta speak, take the time to study. You spend time on the internet reading useless opinions from misguided miseducated souls who spout lies and pass them off as truths, maybe take the time to read the Truth.

Re: The Holy Bible #144542 07/21/06 04:56 AM
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Carennedy Offline
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Quote:
We believe he did not die on the cross. And biblically there is not much evidence to say he did die on the cross.


OK I maybe I am going to be up all night again. I can't stop thinking about all the lies being passed as educated truth.

Quote above. Well then why did the historians of the time, Josephus and Tacitus record that he did die?

Dr. Alexander Metherell MD Phd provides medical evidence in the death of Christ.

1) He was flogged "As the flogging continued, the lacerations would tear into the underlying skeletal muscles and produce quivering ribbons of bleeding flesh."
A third Century Historian described it as "the sufferer's veins were laid bare, and the very muscles, sinews, and bowels of the victim were open to exposure."

So there is a huge amount of blood loss. Historians are unaimous that Jesus survived this.

2) He was nailed to the Cross. The nails were driven into his wrists (considered part of the hand at the time) and they crushed the median nerve, the largest nerve going out the hand. His feet were also nailed, crushing those nerves.

To explain this pain Dr. Metherell provided this analogie. Take your funny bone, which is really the ulna nerve, and use a pair of pliers to crush it. That is the pain Jesus would have had. To describe the pain they made up a word for it - excruciating - it literally means "out of the cross".

When the cross was jarred into place his shoulders became dislocated.

3) He died by asphyxiation. In order to breath he'd have to push up with his feet so his diaphragm would be able to exhale and then relax again so it could inhale. Shallow breathing results in respiratory acidosis, carbon dioxide is dissolved in the blood as carbonic acid. This leads to an irregular heartbeat.

4) The lack of blood caused the heart rate to increase causing the heart membrane to collect fluid, this is called pericardial effusion, fluid would collect around the lungs, this is called pleural effusion. This is why when the guard pierced the side of Jesus water and blood would have come out.

How do I know that Nails were used to cruxify - in 1968 archaeologists in Jerusalem found remains of cruxified bodies and one still had the nail in his feet with part of the cross.

Why do I believe he was dead... Because the Roman soldiers knew their job and had seen enough dead bodies to know if one was dead or not. If they had brought down someone who wasn't dead, they faced death themselves.

I have a question for you now......

1) Do you really believe that someone that severly wounded without the emergency rooms of today, would have survived this?

2) Who do you know that would allow himself to go through this type of torture for a lie? Don't forget Jesus hadn't done anything wrong in the eyes of Rome, all he had to say was "I am not the son of God, I am not the Messiah, it was all a lie." -- but he didn't.... That is how I know he is God, no human would have done it.

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