BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Bible Basics Attacking Atheism!

By the way the term Christian Wicca may be a fairly new term, however the idealology is not a new one. Gnosticism....The Knights Templar. Ancient Jewish mysticism. Wicca beliefs/practices are based are ancient practices that have been in place since before Christianity. Such things are not New in this Age. It's just since the repeal of the Europeon law banning witchcraft Gerald Gardener's book, Witchcraft Today (1954), has brought out something that has been hiding in the "broom closet" in fear for many, many, many generations... the practice of witchcraft, paganism, occult, etc... it's not new... it was just brought out into the open without worry or fear any longer.

brought out into the open without worry or fear any longer.

I don't know bout that one...I still just tell people that I'm going 'camping' whenever ever I go to a pow wow or other non-christianized event. It just prevents the questions and weird looks from those that are less forunate than to have an open mind.

x0x

You know, I get really tired of people who are not Born-Again Christians thinking I "need" to be "educated" on their beliefs as if the only reason I don't accept them is because I don't know. I do not. I am not really interested in learning about beliefs that don't pertain to the Lord Jesus or the Father God. The only reason I have done ANY research at all is so I can understand the DIFFERENCES between Paganism and Wicca and Christianity. I don't need to debate it. Besides, I am content within my own beliefs and don't need to think I am smarter than God by creating my own religion as you have.

What I believe is what I believe. My God is big enough for me. I don't need yours. I don't need to be enlightened by you or anyone else. I have the Holy Spirit. You can make fun of me and say mean things if you want to or laugh at me, I don't care. Take your teaching elsewhere, Lady.

By the way, Wendy, my husband is Native American and we have attended many pow-wows. During the prayer to the Great Spirit, I am praying to the Father through the Lord Jesus. I don't participate in dances, but my husband understands why. He is not offended.

Jenna, I am very happy for you in that you and your husband can celebrate the creator in your own ways.
However, just above you state and paganism and wiccan is a religion that was created by ourselves. (I will also let you know that audibly gasped when I read that one) If you go the route that says that God is omnipotent, all knowing, all encompassing and listens to you every day at all times whenever you want him to and most importantly when you need him most to. Then you also know that He will reach you anyway that he can. Whether its through numerology, the bible, animals, kabbalah, scrying, meditation, WHATEVER.
By saying that you don't care about other peoples form of religion and how they commune with creator is closing yourself off from more of his teachings, just from a different source.

Think of it as like in school. Everyone has to take a math class. There are children who just dont understand that 3 minus 1 is 2 until you write is down while others hear the teacher say it and understand completely and still others must be shown 3 pencils minus 1 pencil leaves you with 2 leftover.

Now as to whatever version of a christian you are doesnt matter, but saying that you dont care and dont want to learn is like back handing Creator in the face.
There is nothing wrong with atheism, gnosticism, paganism and all the other isms you can come up with in the world. So long as you realize that the basic boiled down guts of most organized religions of the world is unconditional love and understanding.
have a lovely evening all of you
Wendy

Why are you becoming so offensive? Am I trying to convert you to my religion? Am I trying to drag you to an altar to have you confess your sins to my God so that your soul might be saved? No I am not. You made a statement that appeared to be a statement made out of a misconception as to exactly what I believed in. I wanted to set the record straight as to what exactly I believed in. I am not trying to ram my beliefs down anyone's throat. I am not trying to convert anyone. What I am trying to do is inform and break the stigmatism that Fundamentalist Christians have placed on those who follow Wicca or some other Pagan relgion. And I was a Fundamentalist Christian for 10 years. I was taught by MANY pastors, priests, elders, and friends to be informed... truely informed... of the facts on other religions. In fact, I was taught the way to win over a soul for Jesus Christ is to know the "enemy." That means one must know the facts as to how your "enemy" believes and thinks. That means researching and studying the truth about other religions other than Christianity. I was a very good "Fundie." I truely knew how to talk with Jehovah Witnesses, Pagans, Wiccans, Buddhists, Catholics and even the Amish... because I lived in Holmes County Ohio, Amish territory, for 5 years. I am not trying to pass judgement on you, for that is something that I despise, but I wonder if maybe you are just afraid of learning about other religions, for maybe it will bring up more questions that it would answer. Even though I knew exactly what to say to those who were not Christians, and twist scripture to suit my own purposes, which was to get the nonchristian to the altar to save their soul, in the end learning about other religions made me realize that Christianity alone did not have all the answers.

By the way, I did not make up the spiritual path that I am following now. Christian Wicca is a modern term yes it is. However, look into Gnostism... read the Nag Hammadi Library... ever heard of the Knights Templar? Dear this path is extremely old. I suggest that you stop being so defensive and just lay down the pride and just study and research. Just because you learn about other religions doesn't mean you are giving up your beliefs... it just means you are expanding your mind and gaining knowledge. That is all.

Or maybe you just like it in your safe little God box that you have placed yourself in? *shrugs* I don't know. Only you and The Divine knows that answer.

Oh by the way, my husband is a Christian who is mixing it with Native American Spirituality. Yes, he is Native American, and Jewish, and French. However, he read an old Native American story where an old Native American Woman asked this man, who was afraid to ackowledge his Native American side, which part of his body was Native American. Was it his arm? Was it his leg? Or maybe it was his foot. Which part of his body was Native American? He was embarrassed as this elderly Native American woman laughed and told him "Either you are... or you're not." With that my husband decided to embrace the Native American within him that Fundamentalist Christianity told him to ignore for 14 years. Now with my blessing I have encouraged him to explore this mixed spiritual path that he has chosen. Why can't one be Christian and still explore Native American Spiritualism?

Now with my blessing I have encouraged him to explore this mixed spiritual path that he has chosen.

Of Course you did...

Why can't one be Christian and still explore Native American Spiritualism?

One can be Native American and be a Christian. But like I said before to someone else here a while back, you can't marry other religions with Christianity. The first Commandment tells us that much,. It says that we are not to have false Gods before our Lord God. Jesus said that He is THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. NO ONE CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH HIM.
I just don't seem to find any way around that. I am certainly not going to presume that I know more than God, would you? And I absolutly wouldn't encourage others to presume that either. I wouldn't ever ask anyone to deny their heritage, just encourage them to enrich their lives with personal relationship with the Lord Jesus also.

Either your with Jesus or your against Him...no way around it. Read the Bible and find out for yourself. I am sure of it... It might make you mad or upset, but I, too, speak my mind and can be particularly stubborn on the subject of the Truth.

Ugh, do you all know how much this feuding irritates me, this is the stuff that crusades are made of.

Not one religion is going to be the right one. And if you were to really look into 'Native American Spiritualism' You'd see that there is a "god" Creator. There are also mother earth, father sun, as well as animal sprits like bear, deer, weasel, wolf, etc etc. But these arent worshipped as gods - Atleast in the way that I uphold them in my heart. But, I can also counter these presences with easily recognizable christian figures. Think Mother Mary, all of Jesus' disciples, Joseph, Mary Magdelene.
I have read the bible, several times, my grandmother never missed a day of church in her life and taught sunday school for decades. My brother nearly became a pastor and was a vacation bible school participant and advisor for years himself.
Maybe you should be happy that tho it may be a variant from the way you worship, that people have found god.

You are contradicting yourself. First you say that you can be a Christian and seek Native American Spirituality. Yet at the same time you state that you believe that a Christian must serve Jesus and Jesus only and have no other gods. If you knew anything about the Native American Spirituality you would know that they saw a Father God, Mother Earth, and the plants and animals all around them spoke to them of the stories of which the Father and the Mother wanted them to know. Many Native American Traditions believed in Gemstone and Crystal Magic. They believed in Herbalism mixed with chanting, which would be considered the same equivelant as witchcraft... the use of herbs and spell casting to bring about needed change.... a prayer with a prop so to speak. Many Native American Traditions believed in shapeshifting. I encourage you to learn the truth about Native American Spiritualism. For if you knew the truth you would feel exactly as you would as you do my personal belief... that the two religions cannot be mixed.

I personally believe that they can be blended, without compromising anything in the process.

And by the way, I have studied the Holy Bible for 13 years now, just about everyday. Over the past 5 years I have also been studying the Apocropha, The Dead Sea Scrolls, and The Nag Hammadi Library. On occassion I'll study the Book of Mormon. I understand more than you realize about the teachings of Jesus. I also like to read up on other spiritual philosophies. Some Wiccan/Pagan authors that I love to read are Gerald Gardner, Scott Cunningham, Raymond Buckland, Janet Farrar, Edain McCoy, and Starhawk. I even like to read on Buddhist philosohies. My favorite Buddhist author is Thich Nhat Hanh. Hanh is responsible for inspiring Marsha Linehan as she developed the DBT (Dialetical Behavior Therapy) Skills for those who suffer with Borderline Personality Disorder, which is one mental disorder I do have. That's how I became exposed to Hanh's work on Mindfulness skills.

So, you see, I am a pretty knowledgable and resourceful person. I am no fool and I do have an understanding of what I have been practicing and studying (Christianity) for the past 13 years. So I will kindly ask that you refrain from using the "Fundie" tactics of trying to enlighten me as to the true Nature of Jesus the Christ and the true Nature of his teachings in order to get my arse saved. I don't need saving.

Wendy,

The argumentative tone that some have taken in this discussion have worn me out, too. Like I said before, I don't look down on your Native American heritage. My husband is Native American also. My comments in my last post were not directed towards you. I'm sorry if you felt that way.

Lady,

I'm sorry you feel that you don't need saving. I guess Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for you was a meaningless act... I'm glad that it is not meaningless for me. Obviously you came into a Christian forum just to show me and others how educated you are. However, if education was all that impressed me, I wouldn't be here writing for Bella Online for free and loving it. I write here because I am able to write about what I am passionate about which is the Lord Jesus Christ. I've always believed that if someone didn't agree with my views there are plenty of other places in Bella Online they can visit. This is a diverse webzine with several educated and highly acclaimed writers. Each one of us has a passion for what we write about.

I have asked that you keep a civil tone in my forum. Calling me a "Fundie" is just your way of making fun of my beliefs and won't be tolerated anymore. This is a open forum and people from all backgrounds and beliefs are encouraged to participate. But, there are guidelines which you agreed to when you signed up. One of those was that you refrain from attacking another participant by way of race, religion or gender. This is not the first time that you have crossed the line here. I have deleted and edited posts of yours in the past in order to keep to the guidelines. I have also written to you privatly encouraging you to refrain from this kind of attack. Now I am asking you publically. I am closing this discussion and humbly ask that if you decide to particpate in discussions here in the future that you do so according to the guidelines. Thank you.