Piwo,
I don't accept your sincere and heartfelt apology for essentially diverting this thread from your comments. That my observations and questions that for the most part went ignored while others retorted to your observation and editorial is because most writers come from the USA, Poland or other places distant from France and maybe Western-Europe.
That I am concerned about the situation is because of the posibility that the riots can spread through North-Western Europe like a wildfire, because the same mixed populations live in France, Belgium, Holland and Germany. The same type of guys (Maroccan, Arab, Somalian and criminal gangs of the Duch antiles) live in the subburbs of the large Duch cities. We already had our riots a few years ago, and they can return on a larger scale with more violence and could create more devidance than there already is between the white caucasian Duch and the foreign peoples in Holland. I am very ambivalent in this situation,
because from on side I live in a more or less leftwing or liberal multi-cultural environment or social cirlce (Duch, Turkish-Kurd, Antilian,
Iranian, Half-Hungarian, Bulgarian, Gypsy, German friends) of left intelligentsia, painters, musicians, poets, photographers, video-makers
and graphic designers. Most of them vote left and radical left.
In the same time like most of the Duch society I moved from the center-left cultural middle to a more rightwing standpoint.
Like Poles and Americans on this forum I love my country, it's history,
it's culture and art, it's achievements, it's regions, it's language, and so it's various dialects and kind of people.
Like in America in the seventees there was to long a climate of "affirmative action", an official policy of tolerance, which was very affraid of discrimination of minorities, and so strict anti-discrimination laws. That went so far that it was most objectionable to be conservative,
patriotic, rightwing or nationalist. Foreigners were pampered with subsidised clubs, organisations, Mosque organisations, job possibilities,
family allowance. No-one in the seventees or eightees thought about asking these people to learn to speak the language properly or spread them over various locations (to avoid the formation of getto's), to aks them to become Duch citizens (like the American's do), because the politicans were afraid to stigmatise people, the employers simply needed cheap labour (work no Caucacian white Duch people wanted to do), and the government simply payed the social benefits and pensions of these people. Many of them became unemployed and got a Duch allowance. The Duch (left and centre-right) politicanians, administrators and bureaucrats simply forgot the Duch for a while and concentrated on the housing of foreigners, facilitating their organisations, and allowing their large families to reunite ovehere, although the fathers had no job,
and the mothers simply stayed inside.
As a result of that generations of unemployed people emerged in these neighbourhoods of our big cities, in which a huge crime rate, vandalisism, decline and poverty was existend.
The governments changed into more business oriented, pragmatic reform governments, like the centre right market oriented Unia Wolnosci
government in Poland in the ninetees. Reforms ment to cut down drastically on social security, housing projects, less subsidised groups,
and more space to private ownership, free enterprise, and self organisation of citizens (charity, Non-Governmental organisations, churches, volunteerwork and etc.).
The Duch working class and middle-class was fed up with the political correct political elite and the in their eyes weakness of a over-tolerant society and social-economical and political system, which was built
at their expense. Half way the ninetees it was hard for a white male to
find a job because foreigners, women and youngsters had priority.
They and their families got really sick of that and got their revenge, when they in 2002 after the assasination of their Populist hero Pim Fortuyn, who said that he represented the voice of the common men
agianst the arrogant political elite ("the left church" in his words), en mass voted for his party "List Pim Fortuyn" LPF, and from nothing came to 26 percent of the vote, totally minimalising the Duch labour party,
and forming a rightwing cabinet of Fortuynists, Christian-Democrats and rightwing liberals. The society had changed from a social-democratic,
left-liberal society to a rigthwing populist and conservative-liberal society. Politicians from left to right took a tougher standpoint towards foreigners and the integration or assimilation of them in our society, whci had completely failed in the previous three decades.
We recognised that we had an alien element in our society, which was strange to our national culture, and which had own rules, territory and
subcultures. in 1991 I was violently robed in Amsterdam by a North-African gang, and because of that I became xenofobe and Islamofobe. That was not accepted in my left and cultural environment.
Until today revenge thoughts go through my mind, and when I see France, I do not hope that these troubles come to Holland, because then I might take my revenge on the Maroccans. Yes, I think there are to many of them here, that Islam is a problem, and that Europe should be Christian and secular. I am agianst Turkey in the EU.
The weakness of the Western European politicians in their internal affairs and in their muliti-lateral and bilateral (French-German axes) relations whith eachother, and especially in EU context makes me sick. I have no trust in our national and European politicians (parlaimentarians), leaders and bureaucrats.
Although I am very Pro-Europe, and happy about the fact that Poland, Hungary and the Czech and Slowak republics joyned us, I am also Euro-sceptic, due to the weakness of Europe, the lack of determination,
vision, Unity, solidarity and strenght of this Union.
About France and our Western-European states which have the same problems (as I mentioned above here). Not only the foreigners are a problem here. We have a underclass in Europe of 80 million people,
unemployed, poor, low educated, illiterate, primitive people.
Next to the problem of "the foreign state" exsistance in our national state (Turkish and Arab speaking zones), we have the problem of our own undevelloped underclass of poor white neighbourhoods, in which the same problems occur as in the foreign neighbourhoods, alienation by the degeneration caused by unemployment in families for generations (grandfather, father, sun), alcoholism, broken families, drugs, violence,
crime, Hooliganism and closed neighbourhoods (the hood is the autonomous territory of its citizens, outsiders not allowed).
Frnace and Brittain have the worst problems with their Algerian and African ubnderclass in the banlies and the Pakistani and Yamaican gangs in Brighton and east-London.
But we know that what yesterday and today was France's or Englands problem is our problem tomorrow.
That's why you don't have to apologize for sidetrackingmy post Piwo.
Poles and Americans have the right not to be interested in France
or Western-Europe, which was such long time an arrogant wiseacre.
Now we have to take care of ourselves, now America is bussy with itself
and the Middle-East. America has helped Europe for one century,
and got back for it Europe's critisizm. Now Europe is not the centre of the world anymore, and we have to get used to that.
Maybe the hope of Europe lies in Central- and Eastern Europe, and less in Western-Europe, a spoiled and degenerated area.
A dam I aggree with your words of France, I am fond of the French language, culture, cuisine, country, cities, cathedrals, women, cinema,
art, music, stile, cars (Citro�n, Renault, Peugeoit, Talbot), wine, champagne, cathedrals, Mediterannee (Cannes, Nice et especiale
Montpellier) and Paris (Place 'd Italy, Quartier latin, Saint germin de Pres). And the french speaking cities of Belgium Bruxelles et Liege.
Vive la France, Vive La Pologne, Vive L'Europe, Vive L'Etas Unis.
Pieter
Pieter
