I have been deceived by many who looked very honest and true.
Afterwards I realized that they were different to what i had felt.
Any hints about early detection?

Gee, that's a tough one Das.
I am a person who tends to see the best in people, until I learn otherwise. And the 'otherwise' happens a lot because I am not a good judge of character, and I frequently get burnt.

I remember a friend of mine who married what appeared to be a wonderful man. He was gentle, kind, thoughtful (too good to be true?) and I was shocked to learn a year later that he was a 'con-man' who was wanted by the police in two states. He 'took' my friend for $30,000 of her life savings!

I don't know how you 'detect' the ones who are not trustworthy. I suppose you could look more critically into what they say and how they behave.

My mother used to say "Trust no one until they have proved their worthiness of your trust, and even then, don't trust them with your secrets!"

I guess we can only give our best, and hope that those we associate with will do the same. Perhaps we should not place ALL our trust in anyone. I have learned the hard way that it is foolish to have expectations, because no one is perfect, and the only creatures I place all my trust in now, are my dogs!

Patience.

The key words to what you stated is that "they were different to what you had felt."

I don't usually go by how a person looks, but how a person makes me feel. I get a sense deep inside that tells me what I need to know about that person. It is instinct. We all have it. Some of us have it stronger than others. A person may look honest and true, but if my instinct tells me not to trust them, I go with my instinct and walk away.

It's hard to tell, das, without knowing more of the situation.

I've had a couple dear friends in my lifetime, who are gullible in some way, and easily used by those with weaker ethics, and they might be, for instance, often cheated on, or separated from their money. I have known a couple of women who are continually lied to in their love relationships, but i think they don't see that they help create the situations by being so shocked and upset by ordinary truth. Their men start lying to them about little things, to spare their feelings and avoid silly arguments, but then the habit grows because it's more convenient for them to deceive. The women change relationships, and the same thing happens, again and again... and the women start to believe that all men lie... but this isn't true.

I've also known some people who want so much to believe in others, that they make heroes out of people they don't know very well. But there is not a human being on the face of the earth that does not have character flaws... even heroes! Sometimes we just want people to be perfect.

I've also known many people... too many... who have been deeply hurt and then go through life distrusting so they can be safe from others. But there is a terrible price for this. Everyone is going to be taken in sometimes. No amount of precaution can protect anyone entirely. And too much distrust will close you off from good friends and healthy, loving relationships. It's important to trust... and trusting means believing without guarantee... being vulnerable. There are no great relationships without vulnerability. So there has to be a balance... reasonable precaution, but not constant vigilance... and where that lies for you, i don't know.

The degree to which these persons were unethical or disappointed you makes a difference to the answer, as does if you find yourself in repeating scenarios. Everyone is human. We forgive others for their failings so that we can be forgiven for ours. But there are some situations that are very serious in nature, abusive... and sometimes a person is not safe or healthy to be involved with because of the nature of their failings. Obviously these we wish to avoid.

Holly, can you judge any one by the posts made here? does the language tell you something?

Judge in what manner? Do you mean judge if they are safe? Judge if they are representing themselves truthfully? Or just in the matter of hypocrisy?

I don't think a judgement of a person for themselves is possible, because we don't ever meet a person on a forum, in the flesh (or if we do, it's quite rare....)
I think the only way you can make an effective appraisal of a person is to see whether they make sense in what they say, whether they talk kindly or rudely, and whether they are consistent in their "appearance"...That is to say, do they say one thing in one place, and another thing on another forum/thread, or are they quite consistent with their opinions and views?

You might not always agree with what they say, nor might you like the content, but everyone has a right to post and state their case, just as you have a right to accept or reject what they put forward.
But if their posts are sincere, well-intentioned and considerate, then we simply have to decide whether we agree, and trust, or whether we disagree.

I have found for myself that sometimes, if I have read something i'm not quite sure of, I feel more able to make a valued assessment if I just read and re-read their posts, and take a step back.
For example, a poster on another thread has actually put it to me that Buddhism is brainwashing, and I think this was an extremely valuable and debatable point of view, one to which I gave quite bit of thought and consideration before responding.
My initial reaction was quite defensive, but then I realised I was taking her comments too personally, and there might have been something in what she said. To an extent, she had a point, but this was more in isolated instances, rather than as an accurate statement and general concensus.....But it was most thought-provoking and interesting.

Nobody on here, to my mind and in my opinion, ever takes the subjects we discuss either lightly or disrespectfully.

(Disregarding spammers, flamers and trolls....!)

I think this forum is very special for that.

Hope this helps, Das.
Nice question.

Yes.

Judge if they are representing themselves truthfully?

Alexandra, your post answers many imp. points.
My question is little different.
When you meet a person, you have visual contact.
You can feel the emotions and the sound.
Here you have words.
It is like receiving many letters from someone and then judging the character.

On this forum, I have found that somebody always acts as if she knows everything.
I am not naming. It may well be me.

Now, that lady acts as if she is here to tell others about what to do and how to behave and so on, as if she is taking a class of primary school students, what does it tell you about that person?

That person may be suffering from inferiority complex and needs to assert herself at every point. I hope you get me.

When I read posts by Holly and patience, they tell me that these two people do not treat themselves as perfect at all. They are here to share and help and get help in return. I love them because of that transparency. They are cute. That behave like human.

Some others like Hope, Joan and others are also cute.

Texas dave has no deceptions. He comes and he bombards and acts like a bull in china shop.

I did some business with Americans and succeeded very well. I found that instead of using any formal language talk to them with heart. We have never met. But we love each other and have full faith. Words full of emotions did that. Words that were transparent did that. Words reflected the character of both sides.

Words have tremendous power and they may give away a person. Can we discuss more?

Alexandra, about you if you permit.

I have many observations but I will make one now.

Are you not fanatic about Buddhism?
Can you take real vicious criticism of Buddhism calmly?
You may say yes, but I think you will not.

I am making these posts with faith that they will be taken in good spirit. If anybody feels that I may be talking wrongly, please tell me. I will stop posting on this thread.

Hi Das, it's Percy here. (writing under Patience's ID!)

I have no problems with what you post. None at all.

The only times I get stroppy are when someone argues something which simply is not true. And I mean 'true to facts known and documented'.

I'm happy to listen to opinions, and respect differences. But I don't like it when anyone twists the truth.

Don't worry matie, you don't do that!

Percy.

Thanks Percy. Let us discuss more about words and personalities.

Sure! Go right ahead. I'll be on line for a bit longer before heading off to bed!

Percy.

Das, thank you for your comment.

No I'm not fanatical about Buddhism - certainly not to the point fo fanaticism such as that by texasDave and all his other alter-egos.
But I am a sincere Buddhist, and I do take the teachings to heart, and the whole point of Buddhism to me is not merely to follow it, but to practise, practise and practise.
i am sincerely sorry if you feel I am fanatical, but it's not Buddhism I am fanatical about so much, as knowing that what it has taught me, works. There are aspects of Buddhism - such as some Zen Traditions and teachings, for example - that I cannot follow because they do not suit my style of practise. but they suit others. So they are neither 'wrong' nor 'right'.

Why would anyone want to "viciously criticise" anything?

What "vicious criticism" of Buddhism would you have, Das?

Criticise by all means, but constructively, not viciously. What would be the point in being confrontational for the sake of it?
If criticism is due, and justified, of course it is valid. but if someone criticises Buddhism, and I feel they are not entirely correct, or that our viewpoints differ, and I can explain why, why would I not try to put my view forward?

I have never deliberately set out to hurt, wound, insult or injure anyone with what I say. Everything I have communicated has been with the sincere desire to demonstrate the suffering of attachment and the delusion of sadness and pain, and the imprisoning trickery of Fear.
My intentions have always been well-meaning and conveyed with genuine affection.


I have always spoken with the sincere desire to convey the reality of happiness to all who have engaged with me.
if i have failed in that, then i am truly saddened.

Alexandra, I have no criticism of Buddhism.
that was hypothetical question.
I am nothing compared to Lord Buddha who was an incarnation of Lord Vishnu.

I was talking more about personalities.
Nothing else.
If you can give feedback about the question- can we judge people by their words?
You are most welcome.

Sorry Percy.

I could not talk yesterday on this thread.
I was very disturbed about patience breaking her toe.
And my net connection was erratic.

I have already answered the question, das, earlier in the thread.

Yes, but could you be more specific therefore about what it is you want to really know?

have you approached this lady directly, put your findings to her, and asked her for feed-back, person-to-person?
Until you do, you will only get views and opinions from others, not direct concrete answers providing a solution, because nobody can speak for her.

especially without knowing who she is.

So I would, if you want to know her character, suggestthat you do as I outlined in my first post.

Examine her intentions, and examine the consistency of her posts. Examine whether her inputs are always in the same line, or whether she "blows hot and cold."

Should you choose to speak with her personally, and highlight your opinions to her, her response to you will also reveal her true temperament. If she responds kindly and gratefully, and tries to explain herself to you, then you know that she is genuine.
If on the other hand, she becomes defensive, rude and is insulted - then perhaps she has different colours....

How's that?

I will try. Thank you.

Hey Das, please don't worry about Patience's toe! She has day-to-day spinal pain that is much worse and she copes with that!

She sends her love. Keep your chin up matie!

Percy.

patience is a very brave lady. My best wishes are with her and I appreciate and honor the fighting spirit.

To all,

I have posted only from my own knowledge and experience on these forums.

Hollyelise contacted me by PM and stated that she was concerned that my post in the Self Development Forum in the 'Self Pity' thread would be harmful to Das and others. It has never been my intention to do anything but support other survivors.

Holly also felt I should have posted my comments privately to Alexandra, and that personal comments should not have been made on the forum. However, I would point out that my post was not the first to become personal. In the post preceeding my response, Alexandra had said this:


thus ending all communication with me, even though we had been friends, and corresponding since the time when she lived in France. So a private response to her was not possible.

As for being personal, please look at this comment below which was suggesting that I do not want to heal:



This denies all that I have achieved in my life and makes it count for nothing.

So, to all of you who have all the right answers, I bow in homage, and will cease as from now to be a destructive influence on others here.

I wish you all good fortune.

Patience.

Hi Patience, Pl. be with me on this forum.

Yes, Patience, your posts have been received in the way they were intended, and it's not a question of right or wrong anyway. Our purpose here is to seek and/or offer help to each other so we can develop ourselves. What works for one may not work for another, but by sharing all that we know, we can have a lot to explore and try, so each of us can follow our own path and find our own way. That is the good and bad of being human: We are each on our own essentially, and it's places like this forum where we can join together and help each other.

Barbara, you ae so sweet!

Why thank you, Das. It must be the honey I drank in my tea this morning

You are inherently good.