From the constant postings I have read, many of which I agree with completely, it seems that a large factor in choosing to be CF is what we see in kids these days. Disrespectful, insolent, doing things that would have never have passed for "socially acceptable" behavior two decades ago. It infuriates alot of us when we see a child screaming and throwing a tantrum in a public place..and nothing being done about it. I see this happening and I think "thank the powers that be that I have chosen not to have a child, I would never want to deal with that".

Tantrums and this current trend of uncontrollable behavior in children is largely based on the way the child is raised, not by some mysterious genetic mutation in our new generation. So, is one of the factors we are citing in our choice not to have children based on the fact that we ourselves don't feel we could properly raise a good upstanding child? I personally feel that my parents did a great job raising me. I feel that I turned out the way I did because of that. I also feel that if I used the same tactics now days, I would be viewed as a monster. Children are wonderfull..children are our future..but if you honestly don't think you can properly raise a child, is it so bad not to have one?

Skeeter

Nope. I have 100% confidence that I could raise a "good" person. That's why it boiled my blood the first couple of times my boyfriend (whose kids are already grown, and now he's neutered) said, "But I KNOW you - you'd make a GREAT mom!"

And?

I'd make a great teacher, too, but I have my reasons for not pursuing that either. Just because I'd be "good" at something doesn't mean I need to do it just to prove it.

My childfree happy tingles washed over me just yesterday as I was bolting out the door. I had just booked a flight (my boyfriend and I decided at the last minute to skip down to the Texas coast the morning after Thanksgiving and then drive to Houston Monday, where we both have meetings), I was headed out the door to make a fantanstic presentation to a radiology department head, and my cat was wailing at me as if to demand, "Where are you going now -- and did you remember to fill my food bowl?" It was at that moment when I thought, I love being so mobile, able to leap tall buildings in my sales career; able to hop a flight to wherever, whenever; able to phone a friend for happy hour; able to go, do, see or loaf around with a crossword puzzle -- my choice! I love my choices!

It's not that I don't think I couldn't raise good kids, because I probably could (and I'd be a "mean" mom because I wouldn't want my kids to have a cell phone at age 8 or violent video games) but when you have kids, then you have even closer contact with all the undisciplined kids out there THROUGH your own kids! That's something I would NOT want to deal with! And then those kind of kids affect YOUR kids! No thanks!

Cindy

I know I'd be a terrible parent. I have zero patience for children (my animals even annoy me sometimes, and I love them dearly), and I can't stand the current climate where you're not actually allowed to raise your kid - you have to pander to all the politically correct BS instead.

Add to that the fact that child rearing suddenly became a competitive sport, and the whole thing just got waaay too hard. Even if I was inclined. Which I'm not.

I don't have a lot of patience either. The day-to-day repetitiveness of child-rearing would have me going nuts in short order. I just don't want to make the sacrifices it would take, including having to deal with other people's kids.

Cindy

"is one of the factors we are citing in our choice not to have children based on the fact that we ourselves don't feel we could properly raise a good upstanding child?"

For me, yes, one of them.

"my parents did a great job raising me. I feel that I turned out the way I did because of that. I also feel that if I used the same tactics now days, I would be viewed as a monster."

Ditto.

"Children are wonderfull..children are our future..but if you honestly don't think you can properly raise a child, is it so bad not to have one?"

I think no, it's not bad it's sensible and probably saving heart ache for all concerned!

"I love my choices!"

ME TOO!

"when you have kids, then you have even closer contact with all the undisciplined kids out there THROUGH your own kids! That's something I would NOT want to deal with! And then those kind of kids affect YOUR kids! No thanks!"

Agree! Esp. when there seem to be more and more of them too!

" can't stand the current climate where you're not actually allowed to raise your kid - you have to pander to all the politically correct BS instead.

Add to that the fact that child rearing suddenly became a competitive sport, and the whole thing just got waaay too hard. Even if I was inclined. Which I'm not."

AGREE! Like I said, my mother of three colleague one day really dissed a stay at home mother! NASTY! I don't like the competitive element of it either!

"The day-to-day repetitiveness of child-rearing would have me going nuts in short order. I just don't want to make the sacrifices it would take, including having to deal with other people's kids."

Ditto again! Could I agree with you all MORE? I don't THINK so!
(No offense to any parents I'm happy for you that's your choice, your life but for me literally every single day I am grateful to be childfree!!)

I really love reading your guys posts...its nice to know that their are people out there with the same views that I have...or at least are as crazy as I am....

Skeeter

See, I think I would be a GREAT parent - BUT - my kids would hate me. I wouldn't put up with any of their [censored] and I wouldn't buy them everything under the sun for them. Oh, and I'd make them walk to school.

Yea, I'd be a pretty strict parent, too. And I agree that in this era, strict and reasonable would get you labeled a monster. Add THAT to the list of reasons...

No, that's not one of the reasons.
I think we would have been good parents - we're both responsible, stable and loving people.
I think we would have struggled in the early years - we both like our sleep and our own space. It would have been a huge adjustment. The "chasing" stage would have been a trial & the "why" stage. In another post I describe a recent journey in a vehicle with some parents that had a 2 year old - the child had 3 words - "Ball", "Daddy" & "Car" - it was like the Chinese water torture - over and over again for hours.
I think the key is respect - when I see wild behaviour from kids, bad language - it makes me think that the parents haven't set the agenda, haven't set boundaries. I know I would never have shouted abuse at my parents - I loved and respected them too much.
My DH was never hit as a child but his parents were in complete control.
I know it's harder when kids are very young - but that's when you establish yourself as the parent.
I know there are exceptions - one of my brothers was a very difficult child - he was quite an aggressive, restless child - we're not sure why...one Doctor felt he had ADD - he certainly had trouble concentrating and learning.
My brother's partner has 4 children - one with my brother.
She has allowed her kids to take charge over the years....her daughter is a nightmare - answers back, swears at her mother (& my brother), calls her names, disobeys her - it worries me that in a few years she will be a teenager with no controls in place. This girl's problem is partly due, I'm sure, to her father having no interest in her - the mother decided to have a 3rd child so went back to her husband to conceive before ending the relationship again. This kid is constantly looking for attention and reassurance - her behaviour tends to push people away making her insecurity worse...
That's why I can't understand or respect people who just decide they want 4 kids and go for it regardless of their situation - they end up doing so much damage.
Every kid deserves the best start in life.

I'd be in jail, I swear to God. I'd be in jail if my kid or even stepkid swore at me. I have visions of the kid who ever swore at me with his teeth firmly implanted in dry wall with a few teeth missing. See why I didn't have any kids? I can't take this.

My parents corrected that kind of behavior with their own methods: my mother gave a swat on the behind; my father put a vice grip on my arm and warned me not to do it again. Did the trick. I was corrected early. "Time-outs" would have been a haven for me. I would have done anything to be left alone. But instead, my parents parented and corrected rather than ignored. I didn't swear at them later.

"Time out's" = time to work your parents better next time. Give 'em a good swat or pull on the arm to force them to TALK IT OUT -- and you actually get feedback from your kid, which is called communication, which seems to be a lost art with (especially single or otherwise divorced) parents.

Bottom line = kids swear at their parents because the parents let them. Thank God I didn't have that luxury.

We were slapped on the legs mainly by our father - they also, kept a tight rein on all of us. Possibly too tight - I was terribly green at 18 when I started university.
Manners were really important and our speech - Mum drummed that into us - respect for other people and each other and to set the highest standards for our own conduct. You also, see the example set by your parents - our father was always mowing some elderly person's lawn or popping next door to lend a hand or driving a neighbour to the shops.
My brother, the difficult one, was slapped and slapped - sent to his bedroom, lectured - they tried everything.
My brother said to me recently that being hit didn't bother him but that deprivation would have worked - If our parents had taken his bike away for a few weeks, he definitely would have "taken notice". I mentioned it to Mum - she just groaned and said, "Now you tell me"...
It's interesting that the nightmare daughter doesn't misbehave with my older sister (she doesn't see much of me) - I think she knows that my sister simply wouldn't put up with it - it's interesting that she seems to respond to my sister BECAUSE she won't let her run the show. My sister says straight out, "if you're going to be a pain, sit at the other end of the table BUT if you can be nice company, I'd really like to chat to you" - she was a bit stunned but behaved and chatted away happily - until her mother reappeared...and the rude, loud behaviour started again.

Yep, believe it or not, down here in NZ we have had anti-smacking legislation recently passed. You now can't give your child even a little smack on the bottom without giving yourself the potential to be arrested. Growing up, I had a few moments where my Dad gave me a smack across the legs when I pushed it too far. I deserved it and I don't think it has done any lasting damage. I get very very nervous discussing the anti-smacking legislation with anyone down here. Everything's so PC now. I know that they hope the legislation will prevent child abuse within families and I wish I believed it would. But just the fact that I think the anti-smacking legislation is over the top means that I am not PC enough to be a parent during this era.

Lots of people will say we should never go back to the "bad old days". But I laugh about how, if you misbehaved away from home, your friend's mother would give you a swat for being a brat, and then tell your mother, who'd give you another one for good measure!

And it doesn't appear to have done you any lasting damage either Pikasam!

Sure it has. I'm one of those weird childfree people. Do you think I need therapy????? (falls about laughing).

Oh yes, of COURSE. That's why we're weird and childfree! It's because our parents disciplined us and made us accountable. Now it all falls into place! Yes, you definitely need therapy. Or maybe some snowboarding...

Oh, OK. I get it now. THAT'S what's wrong with me! I thought I was lacking some key ingredient to being a "real woman" because I didn't want kids. Turns out it's all my parents' fault for *gasp* PARENTING me!

Yea, I was spanked when I deserved it (there were some childhood shenanigans bad enough that I knew even then that a spanking was getting off easy!). I was jostled around by the arm when I refused to pay attention. I was grounded. I was chewed out. It apparently worked. I learned to avoid behaviors that led to getting in trouble. I learned to respect other people and their belongings. I learned to take care of myself and clean up after myself. Man, my parents REALLY ruined me with discipline, didn't they?

I have been spanked once and slapped on the wrist once. I never did that stuff again.... yes, discipline does NOT need to be "violent," but sometimes it doesn't sink in until there is a slap.

And unfortunately, most parents don't seem to be good at any form of discipline, witness the parents lazily telling their children to stop a certain behavior but not actually getting up and stopping them.

I got a well-deserved spank every so often, and it's still a joke between my brother and I about the time my mom chased me around the house with "the spanking spoon." I got away. They never actually hurt us, just scared us. That kind of discipline works very well on me.

Does anyone watch Arrested Development? The father sets up the fake traumatic accidents to scare his kids into obedience. Hilarious.

I had a dream recently about using the spanking spoon (which is a wooden spoon that I still have!) and breaking it. Not sure what that means...

Maybe the breaking the spanking spoon dream is related to the new boundaries you're setting with mom? It sounds like a good, healthy dream.

As for the original question; I was a difficult child. My husband was a difficult child. We are both still very strong-willed people. Although we would try to be good parents, we would not be ideal parents. I just don't know that I have the patience, as I've even found cats to be a bit clingy at times. So yes, there's an element of fear for me that I'm not parent material. But that's not my only nor my main reason.

Yes, I LOVE Arrested Development! Great show, but never got the audience it deserved ...

I love being so mobile, able to leap tall buildings in my sales career; able to hop a flight to wherever, whenever; able to phone a friend for happy hour; able to go, do, see or loaf around with a crossword puzzle -- my choice! I love my choices!
There isn�t a ME TOO big enough for that Angela. Boy do I love all my choices. My middle brother and I are discussing a European bike trip next summer. For now, it�s just talk. If the euro bike trip doesn�t happen, there are lots of great events in the US to ride. Thanksgiving morning I slept in. I had a leisurely breakfast while I read forum posts and my favorite online sports pages. I went for a nice 3.5 hour hike, right from my house without driving anywhere. The first significant snowfall of the season fell on the mountains of Northern NM and Colorado yesterday. I have been skiing the local cross country ski trail the past couple days and will ski it again tomorrow. Yesterday was wonderful with snow falling and having the trail to myself. Today was just as much fun with brilliant sunshine and crisp, cold air. In addition to skiing, I have been ice skating too. I haven�t had to fight any traffic jams, walk through crowded malls or listen to screaming kids.

I know I'd be a terrible parent. I have zero patience for children.
I have unpleasant memories from being a paid babysitter as a teenager. The idea of being an unpaid babysitter is even less appealing. A high school buddy called me up to chat a month ago. We had a nice chat and I listened politely when he told me about his seven-year-old son. However, I wished my phone had a special mute button so I would not have had to listen to him ramble on for 10 min about helping his son with his homework.

I don't have a lot of patience either. The day-to-day repetitiveness of child-rearing would have me going nuts in short order. I just don't want to make the sacrifices it would take, including having to deal with other people's kids.See above response to Angela�s comment. I will never trade the lifestyle I enjoy for sleepless nights, a diminished sex life, stinky diapers, expensive college educations and expensive car insurance. Just thinking about all the sacrifices parenting requires makes me sick to my stomach.

Oh, and I'd make them walk to school.
My parents joke that they were mean by making their kids walk or ride bikes to school and sports activities when school or sports activities were within a couple miles of home.